Icy Prison Weirdness

[Esmian]

Anyone else notice that this spell is behaving very weirdly? I mean I know it's bugged currently where enemies only need to perform a strength check against CL instead of having a DC 15 + CL check like they're supposed to but also for whatever reason the paralyze doesn't seem to be working in RTWP but it is in turned based.

Of course it could be that they're just immediately breaking out with a strength check but I don't even see the messaging for it in the log.

[Hybernian]

Originally posted by The Professor:

Originally posted by Morgian:

It works fine in turnbased mode for me. I mass freeze enemies with Nenio in act 5. They either save or they don't when the spell hits, and occasionally a mob breaks free afterwards.

Strength checks are d20 + STR modifier, HD don't come into it. The original 15 + CL is almost impossible to beat.

Perhaps the check is working correctly for the mass version.

For single target Icy Prison the strength check DC is just 10 - not plus the CL. So practically every enemy can nearly auto-win the check on round 1.

It's the other way around.
It's your CL without the 15+ modifier

[The Professor]

Originally posted by Hybernian:

Originally posted by The Professor:

Perhaps the check is working correctly for the mass version.

For single target Icy Prison the strength check DC is just 10 - not plus the CL. So practically every enemy can nearly auto-win the check on round 1.

It's the other way around.
It's your CL without the 15+ modifier

Yep sorry, I meant that. Which is the problem, yes.

[Feanor]

Sorry for the reply on an old post but it still seem to be wrong: the DC is correct, (15 +CL) but they make a Fortitude save instead of a STR check, which make it way easier, especially when it's on a wizard who is supposed to have a really low str (wich is kind of the point of this spell imo, reflexe save, str check, yup perfect against wiz). And that make this spell kind of pointless.

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by Feanor:

Sorry for the reply on an old post but it still seem to be wrong: the DC is correct, (15 +CL) but they make a Fortitude save instead of a STR check, which make it way easier, especially when it's on a wizard who is supposed to have a really low str (wich is kind of the point of this spell imo, reflexe save, str check, yup perfect against wiz). And that make this spell kind of pointless.

It now says in the spell's description that the enemies roll a fortitude save. It's a nerf for sure and I'm disappointed, but it makes sense. In Kingmaker the strength check made it effectively a death spell, since with a high enough dc, no enemy would ever be able to escape.

[forkofspite]

Originally posted by Feanor:

they make a Fortitude save instead of a STR check

See 1.3.0k patch notes

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

It's a nerf for sure

For some creatures, sure. For others, the strength check would be easier. If MJ feels like chiming in, there will probably be an explanation as to why this change makes icy prison more powerful.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

Originally posted by Feanor:

Sorry for the reply on an old post but it still seem to be wrong: the DC is correct, (15 +CL) but they make a Fortitude save instead of a STR check, which make it way easier, especially when it's on a wizard who is supposed to have a really low str (wich is kind of the point of this spell imo, reflexe save, str check, yup perfect against wiz). And that make this spell kind of pointless.

It now says in the spell's description that the enemies roll a fortitude save. It's a nerf for sure and I'm disappointed, but it makes sense. In Kingmaker the strength check made it effectively a death spell, since with a high enough dc, no enemy would ever be able to escape.

It's not a nerf, it's an outright buff to the spell.

The strength check was CL-based and only lich was realistically capable of stacking CL high enough for the strength check to be insurmountable by unfair bosses such as Deskari.

The strength check was replaced by a fortitude save check which no longer scales off your CL and simply equals to spell DC. Every mythic can scale spell DC FAR better than CL so now the spell is what you described - effectively a delayed "death" spell unless the target is immune to paralyzation.

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

It now says in the spell's description that the enemies roll a fortitude save. It's a nerf for sure and I'm disappointed, but it makes sense. In Kingmaker the strength check made it effectively a death spell, since with a high enough dc, no enemy would ever be able to escape.

It's not a nerf, it's an outright buff to the spell.

The strength check was CL-based and only lich was realistically capable of stacking CL high enough for the strength check to be insurmountable by unfair bosses such as Deskari.

The strength check was replaced by a fortitude save check which no longer scales off your CL and simply equals to spell DC. Every mythic can scale spell DC FAR better than CL so now the spell is what you described - effectively a delayed "death" spell unless the target is immune to paralyzation.

You mean the DC was not the regular 10+spell level+modifiers like in Kingmaker?

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

Originally posted by MjKorz:

It's not a nerf, it's an outright buff to the spell.

The strength check was CL-based and only lich was realistically capable of stacking CL high enough for the strength check to be insurmountable by unfair bosses such as Deskari.

The strength check was replaced by a fortitude save check which no longer scales off your CL and simply equals to spell DC. Every mythic can scale spell DC FAR better than CL so now the spell is what you described - effectively a delayed "death" spell unless the target is immune to paralyzation.

You mean the DC was not the regular 10+spell level+modifiers like in Kingmaker?

The reflex save was and still is just your regular spell DC.

The strength check that followed was against CL+15.

Unfair Deskari has 68 strength which is (68-10)/2=29 strength ability bonus and can roll up to 29+19=48.

Now assume you're someone like Trickster or Azata who has no mythic means of boosting CL and the highest CL for evocation spells you can get is 20+2+2+1+2+2=29 (CL20 + Storyteller's reward + spell specialization + school mastery + Ashmaker + Arcanist/Exploiter/Diviner CL/CLcheck bonus). 29+15=44 so your Ice Prison strength check difficulty is still below what unfair Deskari can roll up to.

And this is just Deskari, with Inevitable Excess DLC you now need to beat Inevitable Darkness with 79 strength as well.