What difficult is actually like playing P&P? Enemy stat bloat is a bit excessive.

[BoogieMan]

It sure as hell isn't core, or anywhere near it.

I can load up on feats and abilities to increase the DC of my spells, greater school focus, items, etc. Enemy stats are so absurdly bloated that all but the lowest of the fodder make their saves all the freaking time. Melee and ranged misses a lot too, despite also trying for high AB, because so many enemies have silly AC as well. And no, I'm not a novice or new, I've played these games back to D&D 2nd.

Has anyone more knowledgeable with Pathfinder experimented to find what settings actually represent a more authentic experience? If this were a real game with people I'd probably have called the DM out on his BS and told him to stop overpowering the enemies so damn much, getting resisted more often than isn't fun and that there is no way that he's even trying to follow creature handbooks. Buff the bosses, sure. But every other random mook having such high saves is ridiculous.

What's worse, it doesn't really make the game much more difficult, just more tedious and less enjoyable, and every encounter to take longer. It's either too hard or too easy. Finding a nice middle ground isn't going so well.

[Viper]

Originally posted by fox:

Its rigged.

Yes Owlcat rigged there game to make everybody lose. Did n't you know thats the way to sell games..

[T.W. Hamill]

Originally posted by Viper:

Originally posted by fox:

I'm playing on hard and there seems to be hidden penalties to the dice rolls for sure.

Absolutely not...

erhh..

sorta.

The RNG that the game uses is the default one with Unity, and its got a known issue with occasionally getting a biased seed when you fire up the game that can lead to lots of low rolls (affects enemies though, too) or lots of high ones (also affects enemies).

You can usually fix it by just relogging.

[Viper]

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Originally posted by Viper:

Absolutely not...

erhh..

sorta.

The RNG that the game uses is the default one with Unity, and its got a known issue with occasionally getting a biased seed when you fire up the game that can lead to lots of low rolls (affects enemies though, too) or lots of high ones (also affects enemies).

You can usually fix it by just relogging.

The RNG is the C# RNG in the Microsoft Library. ANd that the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. DId you just think that up now.

[Viper]

RNG are all established algorythms. That have been tested over 1000s and 1000s of generated random number. Microsoft or Unity did not reinvent the wheel. They did not invent there own RNG. They used an established one just like every single Programming language or Engine in Existence. these algorythms have been developed by Expert Mathemeticians. Micorosoft was using the Mersene Twister Algorythm. Not sure if it still is. Why would the game use the Unity RNG when Unity uses C# and C#v already has the best RNG available. That RNG is usable form any code that is using the Unity Engine just by including a reference to the proper Microsoft Library in code.

[dulany67]

Originally posted by Viper:

Obviously every single enemy in the game is within the Pathfinder ruleset. Owlcat used those rules to create them.

Sure but that's not the same thing as questioning whether higher level templates were applied in appropriate situations.

[Viper]

Originally posted by dulany67:

Originally posted by Viper:

Obviously every single enemy in the game is within the Pathfinder ruleset. Owlcat used those rules to create them.

Sure but that's not the same thing as questioning whether higher level templates were applied in appropriate situations.

well if you can't handle the fights lower the level your playing on. Its been fine for me so far.

[dulany67]

Originally posted by Viper:

Originally posted by dulany67:

Sure but that's not the same thing as questioning whether higher level templates were applied in appropriate situations.

well if you can't handle the fights lower the level your playing on. Its been fine for me so far.

My point is not that it's too hard personally, and for the record I play games at whatever difficulty I find to be fun. The point is that saying the mobs conform to established Pathfinder rules does not really mean anything in the discussion of difficulty because there is give and take in how you apply those higher level templates.

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

Originally posted by Viper:

I don't min max in any way and use the companions and am doing just fine on core settings. You just have to understand how to use the spells and abilities available to you.. Game defintelly needs no min maxing. Maybe on Unfair but only at the most highest difficulty level.

I disagree... run up against Shival or Blightmaw or any of the other level 20 creatures randomly thrown at you in act 2... i'm trying to push my way through the game but i am honestly slowly getting fed up with how broken encounters get.

Why does every enemy need a 30+ AC?
Why does every enemy need a 25+ SR?
Why does every encounter have to spawn enemies right on top of you...
What is with the endless waves of enemies?

Like there comes a point when things stop being fun and start being a slog, and alot of this game feels like a slog. I've been trying to get through Drezen for like 2 days now... and every turn in that place just feels like i'm in a meat grinder and i'm the steak. I don't get how anyone finds this fun or enjoyable... running up against fights with monsters you know are 10 CR to high for you to be facing is pretty discouraging. Watching an enemy turn your entire frontline into mince meat is just infuriating.

Does every single character really need levels in scaled fist or monk and stacking ludicrous amounts of AC just to get by?

I'm starting to think that might be the case... and while i love my exploiter wizard i'm beginning to feel lie i need to play that OP lich sorcerer just to stand a chance in this game.

When a game stops being fun and feels like a chore, that's probably a sign to walk away. I had high hopes for Wrath but it just doesn't feel fun anymore, and i say that s someone who loves there D&D based games. I love Pathfinder... i run tabletop pathfinder all the time and its my favorite system! but this game feels like it was balanced by a an angry 10 year old who thinks its cool to murder all the players.

It's really kind of depressing...

[T.W. Hamill]

Originally posted by Echo:

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Im going to go with a "kids these days" comment here - try to understand that before spoiled snotrags like you came along, you had to by and large make your adventures.

EVERYTHING was "Homebrew". The published modules were like.. one dungeon.

Going to go with a "you might be dumb" response here..

No, you're just going to reveal that you are the mental equivalent of a zucchini.

By design It was backwards compatible with the 3.5 campaigns. So it only had dozens of well established campaigns available at launch you numpty.

Who in the **** was talking about only Pathfinder? Im talking about the game it grew out of. For the better part of 35 years, there were no "pre published campaigns" you intellectual carrot. (Actually, i take that back. Dragonlance was a thing in 1st Edition... sorta; you werent actually expected to take the same characters through the entire 16 module stretch).

The published adventures were single dungeons.

I was denigrating the entire crowd of people who need their hands held and have to have entire campaigns written for them and cant create their own stories.

Paizo knew there were going to be a lot of people unhappy with 4th edition and they made a smart bet. There would be those who.. you know.. thought the 3.5 rule set was pretty good and wanted it to be further refined rather than for it to be tossed. So it's likely that this OP is not alone in wanting a close to RAW experience. Shheeesh.

People who like the rule set were their market.

Owlcat used Paizo's own rules to create these monsters.

So what the eff are you on about you mental degenerate?

[Echo]

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Im going to go with a "kids these days" comment here - try to understand that before spoiled snotrags like you came along, you had to by and large make your adventures.

EVERYTHING was "Homebrew". The published modules were like.. one dungeon. This "entire campaign to handhold intellectual pygmys from start to finish" crap was not a thing.

Originally posted by Echo:

Going to go with a "you might be dumb" response here..

By design It was backwards compatible with the 3.5 campaigns. So it only had dozens of well established campaigns available at launch you numpty.

Paizo knew there were going to be a lot of people unhappy with 4th edition and they made a smart bet. There would be those who.. you know.. thought the 3.5 rule set was pretty good and wanted it to be further refined rather than for it to be tossed. So it's likely that this OP is not alone in wanting a close to RAW experience. Shheeesh.

People who like the rule set were their market.

No, you're just going to reveal that you are the mental equivalent of a zucchini.

Who in the **** was talking about only Pathfinder? Im talking about the game it grew out of. For the better part of 35 years, there were no "pre published campaigns" you intellectual carrot. (Actually, i take that back. Dragonlance was a thing in 1st Edition... sorta; you werent actually expected to take the same characters through the entire 16 module stretch).

The published adventures were single dungeons.

I was denigrating the entire crowd of people who need their hands held and have to have entire campaigns written for them and cant create their own stories.

Owlcat used Paizo's own rules to create these monsters.

So what the eff are you on about you mental degenerate?

Phew... settle down sunshine :)

[LArc7thHeaven]

Multiple stat buff and sh1t dice rolls is a recipe for disaster. Buff your party to the max, strings of 1 on attack rolls or less than double digit attack rolls. Overcome spell penetration, enemy rolls 10 on will saves.

[Thrax]

The bloat is excessive. There are plenty of other examples to compare that use similar D20 systems. BG.NW,KOTOR,COTM.

PF: WOTR is quite transparent in the matter.

[Randonx]

The amount of complaining about this game is absolute brain candy.

[Faray]

Honestly just play the game on normal. It's enough of a challenge for most people and the stat bloat isn't as bad there. This is much more over-tuned than Kingmaker, which I assume is because of the mythic paths.

[LArc7thHeaven]

Originally posted by Faray:

Honestly just play the game on normal. It's enough of a challenge for most people and the stat bloat isn't as bad there. This is much more over-tuned than Kingmaker, which I assume is because of the mythic paths.

The most blatant example is in blackwater. But they admit it's overpowered and break the balance so they fix it the latest patch. I dunno about after the latest patch but in blackwater you'll have a hard time killing the mobs while you're casually killed the dragon