Blackwater mobs (Spoilers)

[Caelestus]

Defense:
10 Regeneration
Remove Regeneration:
Energy: Electricity
Material: Adamantine
...
Immunities:
Poison
Energy: ELECTRICITY

WTF? How am I supposed to kill these guys if I don't have Adamantine weapons? The only saving grace is that it is not immune to death effects. What if I didn't have a death mage? What if I had NO melee fighters that could Coup? How is it that its immune to its weakness? I feel like I have to cheese this, when I beat them fair and square...

[Insanity_184]

Phantasmal killer spell actually outright kills them so does any + 4 weapon (you can get your weapon to +4 by spells, paladin divine bond, or what ever the hell camillias ability is)

Also acendent element lightning over rides immunity oh and I feel like it stops regen despite immunity cause I don’t remember having an issue.

[T.W. Hamill]

Part the first: quit playing on Core and then complaining. Core is not "normal" and it is not "tabletop settings". It is substantially harder than Tabletop. (even in the in-game "Normal" is about 40% tougher than tabletop on average).

Part the second: Coup De Grace will kill them when they are down. It even pops up a tooltip to tell you so. ALL melee fighters can coup. If you are running without Melee... thats on you.

So you're basically complaining about ... not preparing and running a weird party comp and then blaming the game.

I walked through here with nary a problem once i realized they needed electricity to fully put them down. Just looted a +1 shock sword off the first room and swapped Seelah to that. And that was that.

[Caelestus]

Originally posted by Insanity_184:

Phantasmal killer spell actually outright kills them so does any + 4 weapon (you can get your weapon to +4 by spells, paladin divine bond, or what ever the hell camillias ability is)

Also acendent element lightning over rides immunity oh and I feel like it stops regen despite immunity cause I don’t remember having an issue.

Well, every time I cast electric spells, it pops an "0 immune" for damage. Luckily, I had death magic (i.e. Phantasmal Killer), and I have strong fighters that can surpass their fortitude at 23, after I debuffed them. But its just silly that I have to knocked them all down, then slowly roll the dice to coup every single one of them, hoping that they die. Also, I don't have any +4 weapon at this point. And if you're talking about Camillia's spirit enhancement, it doesn't work. As for Ascendant element, like my complaint said, what if I don't have it? I went fire, not lightning. Also, I'm not sure what difficulty you're playing, but my PK just gets saved by these guys. I need to coup them like 5 times just to get that chance for a kill.

But this was more of a gripe on how they mark a weakness, then turn around and say that its immune. Kind of make me think that its a mistake.

[Caelestus]

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Part the first: quit playing on Core and then complaining. Core is not "normal" and it is not "tabletop settings". It is substantially harder than Tabletop. (even in the in-game "Normal" is about 40% tougher than tabletop on average).

Part the second: Coup De Grace will kill them when they are down. It even pops up a tooltip to tell you so. ALL melee fighters can coup. If you are running without Melee... thats on you.

So you're basically complaining about ... not preparing and running a weird party comp and then blaming the game.

I walked through here with nary a problem once i realized they needed electricity to fully put them down. Just looted a +1 shock sword off the first room and swapped Seelah to that. And that was that.

No idea where you're getting that from. I'm complaining about the actual mechanics. I got through, and killed the, using Coup. Please read first to understand my actual complaint. Why are they immune to the weakness...

[Something completely different]

Use the zap cantrip. You may need some tries with SR 26 but even without spell penetration you can breach that.

[Caelestus]

Originally posted by Something completely different:

Use the zap cantrip. You may need some tries with SR 26 but even without spell penetration you can breach that.

Zap didn't work, 0 immune. Because its immune to electricity...

[Planeforger]

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

I walked through here with nary a problem once i realized they needed electricity to fully put them down. Just looted a +1 shock sword off the first room and swapped Seelah to that. And that was that.

That strategy doesn't really work on Core difficulty, since the augmented demons typically have 43 AC (or higher).

A +1 sword isn't anywhere near good enough to hit them, unless they're already down on 0 hp (which is the difficult part).

[T.W. Hamill]

Originally posted by Caelestus:

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Part the first: quit playing on Core and then complaining. Core is not "normal" and it is not "tabletop settings". It is substantially harder than Tabletop. (even in the in-game "Normal" is about 40% tougher than tabletop on average).

Part the second: Coup De Grace will kill them when they are down. It even pops up a tooltip to tell you so. ALL melee fighters can coup. If you are running without Melee... thats on you.

So you're basically complaining about ... not preparing and running a weird party comp and then blaming the game.

I walked through here with nary a problem once i realized they needed electricity to fully put them down. Just looted a +1 shock sword off the first room and swapped Seelah to that. And that was that.

No idea where you're getting that from. I'm complaining about the actual mechanics. I got through, and killed the, using Coup. Please read first to understand my actual complaint. Why are they immune to the weakness...

Because being augmented (which gives them the weakness) doesnt change the fact that they are demons, almost all of which are immune to electricity.

And they arent immune on Normal.

[CHAO$$$]

Coup de grace while they are down works.

[Caelestus]

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Originally posted by Caelestus:

No idea where you're getting that from. I'm complaining about the actual mechanics. I got through, and killed the, using Coup. Please read first to understand my actual complaint. Why are they immune to the weakness...

Because being augmented (which gives them the weakness) doesnt change the fact that they are demons, almost all of which are immune to electricity.

And they arent immune on Normal.

Thanks for the clarification, but then this seems like an oversight that the cybernetics did not overwrite the immunity.

[XartaX]

Augmented demons have up to around 46-49 AC on "slightly weaker" setting.

That said there are plenty of answers to them. Mine was to repurpose them for my own use as a meatshield, and using Eyes of Bodak to kill them off (level drain doesn't care about your immunities). If you run a buff party you should be able to reach enough attack bonus for your martials. You can target their touch AC (dazzling display>shatter defenses. Touch spells. Etc.). You can use save-or-die spells. Etc. etc.

[Planeforger]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Coup de grace while they are down works.

Yeah, this is the answer for Core difficulty.

My main character's weapon can dispatch the enemies. Everyone else in my party needs to spend a full action doing a coup de grace, because I can't seem to find a single source of damage that reliably kills them.

[Caelestus]

Originally posted by XartaX:

Augmented demons have up to around 46-49 AC on "slightly weaker" setting.

That said there are plenty of answers to them. Mine was to repurpose them for my own use as a meatshield, and using Eyes of Bodak to kill them off (level drain doesn't care about your immunities). If you run a buff party you should be able to reach enough attack bonus for your martials. You can target their touch AC (dazzling display>shatter defenses. Touch spells. Etc.). You can use save-or-die spells. Etc. etc.

I run a monk, and I got his and Camilia's AC to 42, then I just focus them down one by one. Nenio has Ascendant fire, so I'm able to deal heavy damage using fire attacks. That's how I knocked them down, then I proceeded to coup them. Took me like 2 minutes just constantly pinning them down, while hoping my coup is successful. I realized I had misfortune in the latter half and it helped immensely.

[T.W. Hamill]

Originally posted by Planeforger:

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

I walked through here with nary a problem once i realized they needed electricity to fully put them down. Just looted a +1 shock sword off the first room and swapped Seelah to that. And that was that.

That strategy doesn't really work on Core difficulty, since the augmented demons typically have 43 AC (or higher).

A +1 sword isn't anywhere near good enough to hit them, unless they're already down on 0 hp (which is the difficult part).

See:Part the First. Quit playing on Core and complaining. Core is not nor al nor is it tabletop accurate. You chose to play on a much more difficult setting.

And at around 11th level your fighters should be able to hit them, when buffed. 11 BAB, +1 focus, avg +3 weapon, outflank (+4), Greater Heroism (+4), and (low end) +6 attribute. Were at +29 here without debuffs, (Debilitating Injury) flat-footed, bane, etc. oh and add another +1 for prayer. You should be hitting 50% of the time. And were not even tsking into account Divine Favor, Divine Power (bot cannbe made into potions and cast at the creators CL), or some other buffs and debuffs.

Or thundering blows (divine damage splash on miss), lr the one that damages them eaual to your str bonus every time you miss.

[Planeforger]

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Quit playing on Core and complaining. Core is not nor al nor is it tabletop accurate. You chose to play on a much more difficult setting.

Sure, you can drop it to Normal difficulty and sleepwalk through every fight. A decent team isn't challenged at Normal difficulty.

Some of us like a challenge though, so we're playing on Core difficulty. It's normally totally fine with some decent character-building, party composition, and tactics. Blackwater is an unusual spike in difficulty though - things go from "I can figure this out" to "I can't hit them at all", without any real warning.

Is it possible? Yes. Does it seem massively overtuned compared to other areas on Core? Also yes.

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

And at around 11th level your fighters should be able to hit them, when buffed. 11 BAB, +1 focus, avg +3 weapon, outflank (+4), Greater Heroism (+4), and (low end) +6 attribute. Were at +29 here without debuffs, (Debilitating Injury) flat-footed, bane, etc. oh and add another +1 for prayer. You should be hitting 50% of the time. And were not even tsking into account Divine Favor, Divine Power (bot cannbe made into potions and cast at the creators CL), or some other buffs and debuffs.

You're right that your best fighters can reliably get to the high 20s if you use buffs - although if they get hit by Enslave Soul or any other debuffs, they can easily drop back to the low 20s (so they'll only hit on nat 20s). That also isn't a huge help for the characters who don't have 11BAB.

Debuffs...are less reliable, since you'd need to beat their buffed saves. Piercing their spell resistance is mostly fine, but getting through the subsequent will/fortitude/reflex saves gets tricky.

Originally posted by T.W. Hamill:

Or thundering blows (divine damage splash on miss), lr the one that damages them eaual to your str bonus every time you miss.

Yeah, my Regill has that. It doesn't do much in Blackwater, since the increased enemy damage resistance on Core reduces it to ~2 damage per miss, and they immediately heal back 10hp at the start of the next round.