Magus build help

[Jalmari H.]

I am thinking of making magus for 2nd playthrough, never played that class as MC.

I am going for strength based don't care about AC it's irrelevant anyway

Thinking of something like 17/12/14/10/10/16 (scion) or 17/12/14/16/10/10

Just some questions:
- Eldritch scion or int based? I like spontaneous casting with heighten spell but is it worth of it to lose int that's less arcane pool right?
- 1 handed or 2 handed. Is spell combat worth of it? I am thinking it's mostly useless?
- is it good idea to multiclass for high ab class later on? like 15 magus 5 fighter/EK whatever etc.?

I am not looking for crazy minmax 1 level dips. Playing on core difficulty normal setups are just fine.

[frogmoth]

Originally posted by Jalmari H.:

- Eldritch scion or int based? I like spontaneous casting with heighten spell but is it worth of it to lose int that's less arcane pool right?

I'm reasonably sure Scion gets charisma as his primary stat for all the magus specific stuff, so it isn't effected by lower intelligence. I played one in the first Kingmaker-dlc (and there is a companion, too, but I've never used him nuch). One thing that could be extremely useful to know: The elemental bloodlines get an ability to convert the elemental damage from any elemental spell to the element of the bloodline. Combined with the mythic feat that let's you bypass the resistance of one element completely I would assume this would be extremely useful and fun.

Originally posted by Jalmari H.:

- 1 handed or 2 handed. Is spell combat worth of it? I am thinking it's mostly useless?

I'm not the big expert or a powergamer, but from my experience I would see playing a magus without using spellstrike as a waste. It's one of his main feature and one of the features that's making him fun, so one handed. Then again, I'm sure there are some "experts" out there that would tell you that the class is better if you don't play it as it is intendet, don't know. I have fun playing this class among other things BECAUSE of spellstrike. Shocking grasp is the classic choice for a low level magus and spellstrike. If you take for example elemental bloodline fire, you can convert the damage of that spell to fire. Later you choose ascendant element fire, there you go.
Also: for a two-handed magus type of class you can simply play an eldritch knight I would think.

[Jalmari H.]

Originally posted by frogmoth:

Originally posted by Jalmari H.:

- Eldritch scion or int based? I like spontaneous casting with heighten spell but is it worth of it to lose int that's less arcane pool right?

I'm reasonably sure Scion gets charisma as his primary stat for all the magus specific stuff, so it isn't effected by lower intelligence. I played one in the first Kingmaker-dlc (and there is a companion, too, but I've never used him nuch). One thing that could be extremely useful to know: The elemental bloodlines get an ability to convert the elemental damage from any elemental spell to the element of the bloodline. Combined with the mythic feat that let's you bypass the resistance of one element completely I would assume this would be extremely useful and fun.

Oh that elemental bloodline thing is really nice to know. I was kind of looking that option since I suspected there was one but I guess it just does not say it anywhere in descriptions.

[MrQuincy]

I found the Scion to be pretty crappy this time around - vanilla Magus is actually pretty good (if you plan him out CAREFULLY before you play compared to the other arch-types).

I started the game as Magus/Angel for around 14 levels on hard difficulty. I re-specced into Oracle/Angel at that point to breeze through the rest of the game primarily solo. My magus was a joke compared to this combo.

The riding horse magus should be good in theory. But you need to make hard decisions on feat selection.

I always use a 2-hander. You get hit with an attack of opportunity with spell combat. On hard that was pretty much death anytime I tried to use spell combat with a 1 handed weapon (and -2 attack sucks).

I find going almost all your levels in the magus to be better. Or at least - 9 if you plan on melee combat. Then you get dimension strike to target touch AC with your melee attacks. It's a hard class to play IMO because you can't merge a spellbook and your BAB is = to a cleric.

Obviously, you can do the 7 any-Magus and 1 Loremaster for the greater vital strike build. You can push out hundreds of damage at level 9 with 1 swing. This is supposed to be a bug - but is it really?

[frogmoth]

Originally posted by MrQuincy:

I found the Scion to be pretty crappy this time around - vanilla Magus is actually pretty good (if you plan him out CAREFULLY before you play compared to the other arch-types).

What makes Scion so crappy compared to vanilla Magus? He mostly switches the casting stat after all and has spontaneous casting. He still gets the same stuff as Magus, or not?

[Stink Bug]

Be aware that being spontaneous, the Eldritch scion casts metamagiced spells full-round (meaning you can’t use spellcombat with them). Also regarding spellcombat, it’s MUCH easier to use in turn based mode, and that goes for all the swift action abilities Magi get too.

While I personally quite like using spellcombat, you can somewhat replicate the effect on an eldritch knight with the sorcerous reflex mythic feat (and EK wiz/sorc/arc would have a better spell selection).

[Nismu]

currently playing kitsune bardiche tricsketer sword saint and it has been quite fun. just got vulpine pounce so charge shoudl be great now , still hunting for the bardiche that lets you use int instead str

bit weaker side on early game though class abilities have kept him pretty decent

[jsaving]

Max-strength sword saint and max-strength abyssal scion are your best options power-wise. In both cases you ignore spellstrike and wield a two-hander for 1.5x strength bonus. On scion you want 19 levels of magus for greater spell access and would generally combine that with a 1-level scaled fist splash. For saint you want at least 18 levels of magus and there is no real harm done by staying pure.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Jalmari H.:

- Eldritch scion or int based? I like spontaneous casting with heighten spell but is it worth of it to lose int that's less arcane pool right?

Sword saint.

Originally posted by Jalmari H.:

- 1 handed or 2 handed. Is spell combat worth of it? I am thinking it's mostly useless?

If you're building your party properly - you're almost always hitting enemies even on Unfair. In that case Spell Combat is worth it (but Vital Strike with 2hnd is a cool thing too).

Originally posted by Jalmari H.:

- is it good idea to multiclass for high ab class later on? like 15 magus 5 fighter/EK whatever etc.?

Bad idea. Only 1lvl monk dip is worth it.

[MrQuincy]

Originally posted by frogmoth:

Originally posted by MrQuincy:

I found the Scion to be pretty crappy this time around - vanilla Magus is actually pretty good (if you plan him out CAREFULLY before you play compared to the other arch-types).

What makes Scion so crappy compared to vanilla Magus? He mostly switches the casting stat after all and has spontaneous casting. He still gets the same stuff as Magus, or not?

Spell recall. The Scion doesn't get it. It's really good. And meta-magic on the Scion being full round actions is not fun. You can't move and attack during the same round.

[frogmoth]

Originally posted by MrQuincy:

Originally posted by frogmoth:

What makes Scion so crappy compared to vanilla Magus? He mostly switches the casting stat after all and has spontaneous casting. He still gets the same stuff as Magus, or not?

Spell recall. The Scion doesn't get it. It's really good. And meta-magic on the Scion being full round actions is not fun. You can't move and attack during the same round.

Ah, I see now what my problem was. Spell recall was absent in Kingmaker, right?

Concerning meta-magic: depends on what your priorities are. Till now I don't use it that often via feats. There are rods that do it for you, also in WotR.

[frogmoth]

Still I fail to see what is so essential about spell recall. It's simply a matter of ressource management. By mid-game you have enough spell slots available anyway and if necessary you rest. It's not that the game is that restrictive in that regard.

[MrQuincy]

Originally posted by frogmoth:

Still I fail to see what is so essential about spell recall. It's simply a matter of ressource management. By mid-game you have enough spell slots available anyway and if necessary you rest. It's not that the game is that restrictive in that regard.

You instantly recall any spell - you can actually memorize a new spell and cast it the same round.

No one else can do this that I am aware of.

Or you can maximize your casts since it's based on INT. I had like 12 casts of fireball around level 8.

I had no idea vanilla magus was good until I played it 40+ hours in this game. I used a Scion in Kingmaker and thought the normal Magus sucked but it's actually quite good.

BUT - the lack of spell book merging in this game really hurts the class IMO. The power spike you get at level 9 with a merge is super useful.

[frogmoth]

Originally posted by MrQuincy:

You instantly recall any spell - you can actually memorize a new spell and cast it the same round.

I would imagine that this is forbidden if going by tabletop rules?

[jsaving]

Spell recall is decent but isn't enough to vault vanilla magus over saint and scion[neoseeker.com]. It's true that scions use a full-round action to cast metamagic spells but you should rarely if ever be doing that (use rods instead). Go saint if you want the game's highest situational/burst DPS, scion if you want a more well-rounded character and want to lean a bit more into casting.

[MrQuincy]

Originally posted by jsaving:

Spell recall is decent but isn't enough to vault vanilla magus over saint and scion[neoseeker.com]. It's true that scions use a full-round action to cast metamagic spells but you should rarely if ever be doing that (use rods instead). Go saint if you want the game's highest situational/burst DPS, scion if you want a more well-rounded character and want to lean a bit more into casting.

That was true for Kingmaker - not in this game. And the seeker ratings are from beta.

At least - from my experience (over 400 hours into wrath - but on hard difficutly).

The key thing a vanilla Magus has is versatility. And being able to go a strength build (dumping dex) because of free heavy armor casting and the plethora of spells.