Am I crazy or is alchemist superior to the caster classes?

[CommanderWaffle]

I've gotten into a lot of debates with folks who insist that casters are OP. That hasn't been my experience (playing on Core difficulty). I keep trying to use Nenio and Ember, but even with allied spellcaster giving roughly +10 to spell resistance and feats to buff spell DC, all of the important enemies are just rocking with +20 for their saves. I can stock up as many level 7 or 8 spells as I want, but they mostly end up either getting resisted or saved. So I burn a whole turn casting a high level spell just to do maybe 4d6 damage, which is less damage than Wenduag does with one of her 7 attacks (dual wielding throwing axes). Meanwhile my martials are killing it with their massive crit buffs (improved crit Regill is crazy good) and my alchemist is essential. With the trickster mythic path, my bard PC basically freezes all the weaker enemies automatically, so crowd control isn't very necessary.

While the casters have to pick or prep specific spells to get around enemy element resistances, my alchemist is just packing fire, acid, and holy damage (or even curses) at the click of a button. Not only that, but they can full attack a bunch of times per turn, while doing area damage, and targeting touch AC. Not to mention awesome buff spells like cognatogen, haste, shield, and stoneskin.

It just feels like five things need to go right for my spellcasters to be useful whatsoever, while my alchemist merc just does everything better than any of my casters. Even when I burn a high level spell like creeping death, greater shadow evocation, etc, the results are totally underwhelming. Most of the time I'm rolling with a tank, dps, bard PC, cleric, archer, and alchemist, I only occasionally take a caster, and when I do it's like playing on a higher difficulty.

What am I missing about casters vs alchemists?

[darkholyPL]

Well first of all, yes Alchemists are awesome. I really don't think anyone will try to argue that it's not a great class overall.
But it's not the same thing as having a caster in your party. You can do more as a caster, than just blast stuff, and even then you can potentialy do like 1200dmg with one spell, also targetting touch AC.
You can also do other cool stuff, like merge your books, and get 30 clvl, or potentialy 40 if you go legend.
Anyway, both are good, for different reasons, and hey it's a 6 PC party, so why not bring both?

[frogmoth]

I would even argue that Alchemist "breaks" some encounters in that it makes them trivial. One example is the the umbral dragon at the end of chapter 4. Playful Darkness was also way easier with my Alchemist.

[seeker1]

Because I'm a kinda person who plays RT and uses the AI, I happen to enjoy the alchemist is pretty devastating if I let my pal Sharky McBomber just do his thing. MMM tasty splash damage. That said, there are definitely times when I want his bomb-chucking manic self to use a spell, mutagen, or a more focused/targeted bomb (even occasionally his crossbow if it's a really good one with good ammo), and then I take over.

Also, homes can make the potion of heal, which nobody seems to sell, but ... 3 rests to make it? sheesh.

On the other hand, even his explosive bomb isn't as devastating an AoE as some spells my casters can cast. There are reasons I like both.

One really weird thing I will point out: a bomb exists in this game (concentrated acid flask) that does 10d6 damage plus splash, but he isn't the one who can make it. That can be given to anybody to throw. Why isn't he making those?

[frogmoth]

I think in a lot of cases the actual damage of bombs isn't as important as the debuffs you can get. With haste, fast bombs and even rapid shot you get an insane number of throws and every hit is a chance to stagger the enemy, make him prone or whatever type of bomb you chose.

[seeker1]

Well I don't know if he "trivializes" encounters but he seems pretty useful at ending them fast, and I think that's a good thing. I get people might see that differently.

[Conquista]

considering vivisectionist is also superior to alot of martial classes, ya alchemist overall pretty strong

[corisai]

Originally posted by CommanderWaffle:

all of the important enemies are just rocking with +20 for their saves.
What am I missing about casters vs alchemists?

Rays are not subjects to saves. So they're awesome tools to one-shot enemies even on Unfair (with properly build of course).

[corisai]

Originally posted by frogmoth:

One example is the the umbral dragon at the end of chapter 4.

Proper caster killing it in a single round :)

[frogmoth]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by frogmoth:

One example is the the umbral dragon at the end of chapter 4.

Proper caster killing it in a single round :)

Which spell?

[corisai]

Originally posted by frogmoth:

Which spell?

Hellfire Ray of course :)

[frogmoth]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by frogmoth:

Which spell?

Hellfire Ray of course :)

Ah, okay. I build Ember for using it too. But you need a lucky roll for that, I suppose.

[CommanderWaffle]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by CommanderWaffle:

all of the important enemies are just rocking with +20 for their saves.
What am I missing about casters vs alchemists?

Rays are not subjects to saves. So they're awesome tools to one-shot enemies even on Unfair (with properly build of course).

But then aren't they basically just a less reliable kineticist?

[corisai]

Originally posted by frogmoth:

Ah, okay. I build Ember for using it too. But you need a lucky roll for that, I suppose.

Ember is a poor child and would be unable to do so. You need Arcana Trickster, 3-bloodlines and Trickster mythic abilities.
But Ember could apply fire vulnerablity to enemy ;)

[frogmoth]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by frogmoth:

Ah, okay. I build Ember for using it too. But you need a lucky roll for that, I suppose.

Ember is a poor child and would be unable to do so. You need Arcana Trickster, 3-bloodlines and Trickster mythic abilities.
But Ember could apply fire vulnerablity to enemy ;)

Alright, I haven't tried everything the game has to offer of course. (And I don't know if I ever will. Every combination of classes/prestige classes/mythic paths... how many hours is that... 1000? If I think about that I once again am of the opinion the game needs to be shorter... quality over quantity...)

[frogmoth]

Sneak attacks in this game are overpowered anyway, as they were in Kingmaker.