Swarm Path is trash

[Борг]

Swarm path is boring, grindy and weak. If you allow players to sacrifice all of their allies for power - give us power. It should be the ultimate power fantasy path. Right now you lose everything and gain little of value. One of the most unique paths in-game is the most disappointing one.

Swarm size threshold should be greatly reduced. Right now you need to grind mercilessly to reach something above 10 swarm size, CR scaling is too sharp.

To compensate for the party loss swarm clone should come sooner, at mythic level 9 not 10 like it is now, literally in the last few moments of the game.

Add more thematic abilities.
Like summon vescavor swarm without gating it behind the damn cloak with a death condition. Summoning spell could work either as a solo summon or as a Creeping Doom variant (with vescavores instead).
Swarm Cape spell-like ability (can recycle Cape of Wasps VFX).
Perhaps a swarm infested animal companion if MC has one.

[PuppYofDOOM]

Swarms.are nuts in this game.. I had about. 30 skeletons running tryinh to get to a crowded target..


The simple spider swarms because the skeletons are moving running.. Back and forth. The skelerons were gone in a second.

That was vsbthe summoning druid in wimtersun..



Swarms are OP.

[Drake]

Oprindeligt skrevet af PuppYofDOOM:

Swarms.are nuts in this game.. I had about. 30 skeletons running tryinh to get to a crowded target..


The simple spider swarms because the skeletons are moving running.. Back and forth. The skelerons were gone in a second.

That was vsbthe summoning druid in wimtersun..



Swarms are OP.

You don't summon swarms as the swarm, you have 3 supernatural abilities that are swarm themed (and that you can't stack together), yo ueither have a tanking buff, an aoe dot or a single target dot.

The only way to summon swarms is have the cloak and be mythic rank 10 for the clones. Meaning you only get it for the last fights, and let's be honest, the swarms are useless against the last fights.
The only point of the swarm path is to have an army of unkillable rogues sneak attacking the last boss to death.

[the_provalone]

My issue is that the mythic ability for swarm clone reads as 1 clone at ML 8, and there is no way to get it till ML 10. This is a clear case of putting the ability at the wrong level, and it makes all but the most broken builds non-viable. additionally, the abilities from the devoured cultists don't seem to apply correctly, I didn't gain sneak attack or spells at all, even on a respec to see if that would fix it.

[Phantom Mercenary]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Борг:

Swarm path is boring, grindy and weak. If you allow players to sacrifice all of their allies for power - give us power. It should be the ultimate power fantasy path. Right now you lose everything and gain little of value. One of the most unique paths in-game is the most disappointing one.

Swarm size threshold should be greatly reduced. Right now you need to grind mercilessly to reach something above 10 swarm size, CR scaling is too sharp.

To compensate for the party loss swarm clone should come sooner, at mythic level 9 not 10 like it is now, literally in the last few moments of the game.

Add more thematic abilities.
Like summon vescavor swarm without gating it behind the damn cloak with a death condition. Summoning spell could work either as a solo summon or as a Creeping Doom variant.
Swarm Cape spell-like ability (can recycle Cape of Wasps VFX).
Perhaps a swarm infested animal companion if MC has one.

I tend to agree. I just completed Wizard/Lich run on Hard and now doing Wizard/Swarm and I have to say that Lich is way more powerful, to the point of not even being comparable. Especially if you combine Lich Spells with Feats and Meta-Magic.

[rumpelstiltskin]

i guess it's an owlcat thing:) some thing are just traps that suck

[CloudKira]

Guess Owlcat believes that evil shouldn't pay off. :(

That may be why Angel and Gold Dragon are so powerful while Swarm is just...a helpless locust. :(

Hope it gets an upgrade but we shall see...

[Gorwe]

Oprindeligt skrevet af CloudKira:

Guess Owlcat believes that evil shouldn't pay off. :(

That may be why Angel and Gold Dragon are so powerful while Swarm is just...a helpless locust. :(

Hope it gets an upgrade but we shall see...

I noticed this way before. Take Lann vs Wendu. Lann is flatout better in like 90% cases. And he's the "good" choice. I mean, what's the point of an "evil" choice if it don't come with benefits? The only one that somewhat does is Lich. But he has to contend with Angel, Azata and GD and that's a tough competition. Demon flatout sucks. Not to the level of Swarm, but it's honestly pointless. Kinda like Metamorph Alch. Flavorful as all hell, but ultimately pointless.

[seeker1]

At least nobody's complaining about the lack of romance options for swarm.

"Well, I may be a walking insect swarm devouring all my companions and everything in sight, but don't I, too, deserve love?"

Also I wouldn't really cite Gold Dragon as my key prop for arguing "good pays".

[Gigabyte]

Oprindeligt skrevet af CloudKira:

Guess Owlcat believes that evil shouldn't pay off. :(

That may be why Angel and Gold Dragon are so powerful while Swarm is just...a helpless locust. :(

Hope it gets an upgrade but we shall see...

gold dragon isnt even that strong, Azata blows it completely out of the water.

[uwfsam2000]

I have 2 Mercs, will they also leave? I paid for their services already lol.

[darkholyPL]

Oprindeligt skrevet af CloudKira:

That may be why Angel and Gold Dragon are so powerful while Swarm is just...a helpless locust. :(

Gold Dragon and powerfull should never be in the same sentance.... Trust me, Gold Dragon is if not#1 weakest, then at the very least top 3. There's a place on the suck podium for our Golden boi, that's for sure.

[synnworld]

Oprindeligt skrevet af CloudKira:

Guess Owlcat believes that evil shouldn't pay off. :(

That may be why Angel and Gold Dragon are so powerful while Swarm is just...a helpless locust. :(

Hope it gets an upgrade but we shall see...

Last I checked, lich is evil. Before I could even move forward the game freaking told me to change my alignment to either neutral or evil... I was freaking chaotic neutral... And I had to shift to evil to continue being a lich... For a being that suppose to be stripped of emotions it's amazing how it has to be "evil" and can't just be pragmatic and concerned with one own freedom above all else is "too good" for a lich...

[darkholyPL]

Oprindeligt skrevet af synnworld:

Last I checked, lich is evil. Before I could even move forward the game freaking told me to change my alignment to either neutral or evil... I was freaking chaotic neutral... And I had to shift to evil to continue being a lich... For a being that suppose to be stripped of emotions it's amazing how it has to be "evil" and can't just be pragmatic and concerned with one own freedom above all else is "too good" for a lich...

Liches are traditionally evil in DnD. Usually becouse to become a Lich you need to be a power hungry, arcane caster, that seeks immortality.
There are however good liches in DnD as well, those are called Baelnorns. Those are former Elves that chose duty beyond death.

[Борг]

Oprindeligt skrevet af CloudKira:

Guess Owlcat believes that evil shouldn't pay off. :(

That may be why Angel and Gold Dragon are so powerful while Swarm is just...a helpless locust. :(

Hope it gets an upgrade but we shall see...

Saw dev comment that said something like "swarm was intended to be challenging". But at what cost? Challenging should not mean weak or unfun. Give me more power, more tools and drown the path in enemies and challenges. This will make it fun.

[synnworld]

Oprindeligt skrevet af seeker1:

At least nobody's complaining about the lack of romance options for swarm.

I will not let that go! If someone tries to convince me that a purely logical and emotionless lich can't see the benefits of having a succubus actually be in love with him then I can't call him logical. Love is a powerful force that can even make the most powerful beings willingly sacrifice their existence for you. And I'm expected to believe a all powerful and logical lich couldn't simulate emotions or even platonic feelings when it fit his needs or wants?