good ending for camelia

[thkiwow]

*spoiler alert* we're discussing camillea's ending here, it's purely theoretical, so if someone wants a spoiler free guide they'll just have to wait because we cannot do that.

*warning* I haven't confirmed anything yet, but I want other people to tell me if I'm wrong or to have it going at the very least, because this is what I think would lead to a better ending.

sooooo..... I've heard that there are multiple endings for camilea, but nobody has achieved the good one yet or something like that. I have a theory I would like to test. which concludes that you can get the good ending for camillea by being nice to her and antagonizing horgus gwerm. pretty sure the dude murdered his friend himself. now, let me tell you what I think should be done and how to do that, and why I think you should do that.

you start off meeting horgus and accepting a couple of quests from him. camilea says you should listen to him and accept his money. I'm not sure if you really should at that point, but if it doesn't locks you out from her quests later on in the game you definitely shouldn't. don't accept anything he gives you.

the reason is that in pathfinder usually all of your choices have consequences, and in many parts of the game horgus gives you basically the equivilant of free money. including tropes and other forms of free money throught the game. if you want a 'better' ending for cammilea you'll have to suffer the loss. accept none of his money if it doesn't lock you out from camilea's quests and doesn't antagonize him enough to scare him away later on.

the reason you shouldn't accept it is because her father is actually a prick who only cares about himself and thinks that money can solve everything. he murdered his childhood friend for money, though it'll probably only be revealed when you actually confront him, instead of just "I left him to the demons." he probably pushed him somewhere along the line. and he also resolved camillea's issue with money, but he never loved or helped her, which is why she's so mad at him. but camilea doesn't accept the feelings she has against her father, since she agrees with him on a logical level. which causes her to bottle her rage until she subconsciously wants to kill everyone whom she loves or whom loves her in return. you can see this when she tells you about her 'little ball of rage' spirit later on in the game. something she gained as a child. and you know she subconciouslly hates her father if you follow her questline. since that brothel tells you she wants to kill her father. which is when it clicked for me.

in order to get the good ending for cammilea, you have to let her confront her father and expose him for the hypocrite that he is. so she could be honest with herself, let go of her feelings and stop killing people. he is, after all, someone who thinks his money and status can solve anything and doesn't really care about other people all that much.

finally, when horgus tells you to keep his secret, you must disagree. I wanted to not do it in the first place. at this point I was also like "are you sure about that? is this what is truly best for camillea?". but it sounded like it was none of my business, and camillea told me not to as well. so I listened to her. but that's when I realized that you shouldn't listen to her if you want to get the good ending for camillea, camillea lies to other people, and she lies to herself. she THINKS you shouldn't expose her for whom she was, a bastard aristocratic daugther, when in actuality she would've been very grateful for it.

another reason why I think you shouldn't accept to keep it secret is probably because when you discover that she is killing people, and if you choose the honest dialog "don't do this ever again" thingy. camillea tells you "you know. you have been very kind to me. I have to show you something". but if you actually go out and talk to her later, she tells you that since you agreed to keep her secrets, that basically you are accomplices and then nothing happens. the fact that nothing happens after you talk to her even though you took your time to come and talk to her, later is clearly indicative of some sort of hint that you shouldn't actually accept her feelings. you shouldn't let her lie to herself about her father, and you should make her confront him later on. maybe you also should convince her it's the right choice.

there is a part where horgus basically runs away during the gargoyle attack. what did he do exactly? maybe you have to find him during that quest to further the questline? I'm sure it's there since nobody said it isn't. and I've heard somewhere the developers said that as well. so I think you COULD get a good ending for camillea.

if you do not accept to keep quiet I assume it at least changes the questline. eventually there'll be other choices you have to make but I think you've covered what choices you SHOULD make.
if you never accept money from horgus, keep confronting him, and being kind to camillea at the same time without enabling her habits. I'm pretty sure you could manage to get the honest ending. where she stops killing people or even starts loving the commander for real. which is nice since camilea is hot but there's a saying that you know I don't have to say because you know what it says.

[seeker1]

I don't disagree with you, but so far I've seen no guides saying it's possible. That said, the guides can be and I've found sometimes often are wrong. At least you might be able to get an ending something other than her making an attempt on your life and taking on a new serial killer identity. But AFA a "good" ending - I've heard you can live happily ever after with her and an evil character, but you can't get one where she ends up switching her alignment to good.

[thkiwow]

is that a definitive? because if it's not I'm gonna try it and see how it goes. if someone tells me it's absolutely impossible because they've either tried it or looked into the code of the game and it never happened, then I'm definitely gonna give up on it. so yeah, I would.

[Dekent]

I don't believe she has a 'good ending'. If you play with toybox with a certain option on you can see what each choice does with flags/counters/etudes. These make it clear for every other character that something had an effect, sosiels brother, romance counters, heralds fate, etc etc.

There's nothing for Crazy Cam except for murder count so doesn't seem any of those choices will matter in the long run.

Not everyone can be saved sadly.

[thkiwow]

maybe she just needs to be pushed into a certain questline, rather than approval or whatever. maybe it's horgus' approval that we're actually worried about? and you cannot actually see THAT in game, since he is an npc and not a main character. you need to make him attack you after all.

I think it would make sense to be able to conclude it like this. so I would love if the developers allow it. but it'll suck if they don't, but I won't care. camillea is still bae.

[thkiwow]

what concerns me is that I have basically no idea how they make those tutorials. as far as I know they don't look inside the actual makings of the game. so maybe there is something hidden? I'm not actually that sure how people figured out the exact week you need to get for the secret ending. it sounds and it makes sense though. and it should make sense. there's not a whole lot of tutorials out there, so I figured no one has really bothered to figure it out, since everyone who plays a 'good' playthrough basically hates camillea. since she is a crazy serial killer.

and it's pretty complex if you think about it. you basically have to go against her wishes, turn away free money, and please her at the same time. it's not that easy. maybe you can and just don't know how? I figured it should be possible.

[jsaving]

I like your version. It is not remotely similar to what you're able to do in-game, but it would have been an interesting alternative path for Camellia.

[Choco]

There's no good ending for Camelia. She's a sick and twisted person who cannot be redeemed and doesn't want to anyway. Deal with it.

[Lex]

She cares enough about you to leave before doing something she would regret. This is your good ending, and considering what and who she is, that's something.
This is probably the only moment she is not manipulative nor a narcissistic pervert. When she comes back, before leaving again, I think she truly wants to try, but she's damaged beyond repair and is totally aware of that.

The important moment for Camellia is during her romance, when you tell her to f*ck off, that you don't owe her anything. Your character even drops some kind of "Or else...". For the first time she has nothing to say, no snarky remark or pedantic comment.
After that moment, she could try to stab you, but instead she opens the dialogue again and tries to get close to you once more, and drops the "I am not normal, am I?". One could say it is another way to dominate the MC, but I don't think so. After this point, even if she remains a lunatic, I think she genuinely wants to give her relationship with the commander a chance - even if it's in her own twisted ways.
It's also interesting to notice that her final speech at the threshold is voiced except for the last three words, "I love you". She probably means those words, but it's absolutely not natural to her, to a point she has to whisper them. This is a choice made by the devs, to not make Sarah Smithton record that line. It means something.

I honestly love Camellia to the point she's probably my favourite companion, but I am fine with her bittersweet ending. It is the best you can hope for (even if I would love a bit more text, a longer epilogue).
It's not as frustrating as Viconia's "good" ending, in Baldur's Gate 2 ToB, because Camellia is not "redeemed" through the course of the game. Even during one of the last romantic interactions she laughs like a maniac after stabbing you.
She is one hell of a companion, unique among all CRPGs companions because she's irredeemably damaged. Her inner evil is a condition, not a social construct like in the drow society for example. Her brain is f*cked up. She had psychopathic tendancies as a young girl, and the treatments and abuse she received made it worse.

Honestly, if anyone from Owlcat reads this message, thank you for Camellia. It was ballsy to create that character and to embrace her insanity.

[Wraith]

Well Technically there is a "good ending"
Make her ascend and she won't find murder entertaining anymore and become an explorer instead

[Tingly]

I'm glad there are some companions you can't fundamentally change. The setting feels richer when not everything is centered on the player.

[Keaton]

Originally posted by Wraith:

Well Technically there is a "good ending"
Make her ascend and she won't find murder entertaining anymore and become an explorer instead

That seems to be the only positive end for her.

[Whitman1855]

The best ending, is if Camelia is romanced, and the god route is taken, in the epilogue she keeps coming back to the Knight Commander, and in the end she leaves forever because she realizes that she doesn't actually want to kill the Commander, but she can't change who she is.

[greckoboy]

Originally posted by Lex:

Honestly, if anyone from Owlcat reads this message, thank you for Camellia. It was ballsy to create that character and to embrace her insanity. :LaughingOwlcat:

Totally agree. There are devs that are considered brave for creating unconventional characters that push the envelop to make political statements. Owlcat is ballsy because I don't know what they get out of creating a character like Camellia besides just artistry.