About to start a Magic Deceiver. Advice?

[CyberEagle]

I'm kind of smooth-brained, but the class looks insanely fun past chapter 1.
I kinda want a Aeon or Demon Time Manipulator, knowing that Azata is best, but I don't care for Azatas. But I'm not playing on the highest diffculties anyway, so I'm sure I'll be fine.
Is there anything I should know before starting, beyond what the guide here on Steam says?

[Schlumpsha]

Not much else to say than to pump everything into Charisma and the specific sub-archetype skill. Skill Focus and feats that boost said skill are very handy for Magic Deceiver. For Time Manipulator that's Persuasion (Bluff).

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

A lil late to the party, but Magic Deceiver is by far the most broken class I've yet to try. Spell Focus into Enchantment and get the items that increase Enchantment DC (since for some reason this game heavily favours enchantment spells when it comes to magic items).

Now you fuse Slow + Hold Person. Congratulations, you now have Mass Hold Monster AT LEVEL 7. Why? Well, because it's not that Hold Person doesn't work on monsters, it's that they can't be targeted by it. You know what they can be targeted by though? Slow. Which has the tiny effect of paralysis added to it, as it just so happens. And because Slow has both massive AoE and only targets enemies, you can just slap it every time something remotely bothers you.

Go Magic Inventor for bonus Charisma from items and bonus spell pen from Enchanter's Penetration and enjoy Coup de Grace'ing whatever dares to look at you funny.

You can also combine Fireball + Hold Person. Or Explosive Runes + Hideous Laughter. Sleep + Color Spray for early levels. Lv4 spells are a lil "weak" in comparison, but AoE Boneshatter + Phantasmal Web isn't exactly unfun either. Or, you know, just Enervation + Confusion so that no one except you has fun.

Oh, and if you are Angel mythic, you get the dice bonus to both spell parts, so if you combine 2 damaging spells, you are getting 4 extra die of damage, not 2.

[Realm Walker]

Here is my current build or character in progress:

Living Deity with the fire mystery and the pranked curse,
Background: noble, leader (gives me rapier and longsword proficiency)
my initial ability scores are 8 str, 15 dex, 10 con, 18 int, 10 wis and 16 cha
Revelations: heatwaves (grants 1 round concealment in tight situations), fire breath (has been especially usefull in act 1 due to the magic deceivers low amount of spells slots),

My feats are point blank shot, precise shot, some racial feat, and weapon finesse for the rapier
As mythic feats/abilities, among others, I plan to take mythic weapon finessse and spellcaster

The plan is to choose the magic domain on level 20 to get it's magical ranged weapon attack with the rapier to use inbetween the rounds with spells cast.

Depending on things, I may choose to take second mystery to get either the waves or wind mystery to make use of their defensive revelations (talking about fluid nature(free dodge feat and protection from critical hits) and ice armor or air barrier and invisibility) or - and I know it stretches my character even further - get the life mystery, choose the energy channel revelation and than choose the sun domain on level 20, which makes the channel ignore channel resistance of undead (currently I lean towards taking the waves or wind mystery, which is the more sane and usefull option).

But, you may alread see, my builds weakness lies in defense. The magic deceiver has no mage armor spell or other directly defensive spells and thus relies on other characters to cast them or on potions and scrolls.

I'd say if arcanist has a difficulty of 4 out of 5, the magic deceiver has a difficulty of five. But an arcane caster with a strange mystical gift AND domain abilities if you so wish? It's so worth it.

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by Realm Walker:

I'd say if arcanist has a difficulty of 4 out of 5, the magic deceiver has a difficulty of five. But an arcane caster with a strange mystical gift AND domain abilities if you so wish? It's so worth it.

Brother, Magic Deceiver is the most broken caster in the entire game. Who else gets double-debuffs as AoEs AND get to choose what school their spells belong to and what kind of resistance they attack. It's difficulty -3 out of 5. I played the first time as an Azata Eldritch Knight with a Sylvan Sorcerer as a base and it's not even funny how much stronger my Magic Inventor Magic Deceiver is.

Again, Mass Hold Monster - a Lv9 spell - at character level 7. That alone makes it feel like you are cheating.

[mbradtke]

spell slots are quite limited though

[IlluminaZero]

Hmm the more I think about Magic Deceiver the more it seems like it might be the go-to Azata class for me (if I ever decided to actually do such a replay...)

After all no merged spell book anyways. Favorable Magic and Zippy Magic...

I'm getting a bit of FOMO with my present Merc lineup in my Trickster playthrough (IE Normal Metamagic) but; aside from having superior cantrips, could you actually do anything particularly creative with Normal Metamagic + Fused magic?

Elaboration: Perhaps the more specific question might be - Can you only merge "base" spells or can you merge "metamagic" spells?

Addendum:

Just realized that "Living Deity" allows you to start with an animal companion...

[Realm Walker]

Originally posted by IlluminaZero:

I'm getting a bit of FOMO with my present Merc lineup in my Trickster playthrough (IE Normal Metamagic) but; aside from having superior cantrips, could you actually do anything particularly creative with Normal Metamagic + Fused magic?

Elaboration: Perhaps the more specific question might be - Can you only merge "base" spells or can you merge "metamagic" spells?

Magic Deceivers can not use metamagic. It is a powerfull archetype, but it is also more limited in comparison to "traditionall" fullcasters (low number of spell slots, max level 6 spells, etc.). They are kinda like kineticists in the way that they posses a powerfull offense, but are much less good in other roles. Although they are even more limited than kineticists.

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by Realm Walker:

Originally posted by IlluminaZero:

I'm getting a bit of FOMO with my present Merc lineup in my Trickster playthrough (IE Normal Metamagic) but; aside from having superior cantrips, could you actually do anything particularly creative with Normal Metamagic + Fused magic?

Elaboration: Perhaps the more specific question might be - Can you only merge "base" spells or can you merge "metamagic" spells?

Magic Deceivers can not use metamagic. It is a powerfull archetype, but it is also more limited in comparison to "traditionall" fullcasters (low number of spell slots, max level 6 spells, etc.). They are kinda like kineticists in the way that they posses a powerfull offense, but are much less good in other roles. Although they are even more limited than kineticists.

They can use metamagic rods though, but it only works with non-fused spells. Not sure about metamagic feats, probably not, since the button for magic fusion is where metamagic would usually be.

I'm using a quickening rod on mine to chuck out a hideous laughter or phantasmal web here and there, it's quite nice.

[Soul in Shadow]

Originally posted by Realm Walker:

They are kinda like kineticists in the way that they posses a powerfull offense, but are much less good in other roles.

I don't know about that, the False Prophet has access to Bless from level one, along with a number of buffs usually reserved for divine casters. It can mass cast any buff spell in its spell list from the moment it can cast them. The mass selective cure wounds spells (Cure wounds + Bless) are also a nice touch.

[ajohnemus]

Magic Deceiver is carrying me through unfair with a fairly unoptimized party. Seriously, Blackwater would most likely have been impossible in chapter 3 without him.

1. Hideous Laughter + Slow
2. Slow + Baleful polymorph - if immune to hideous laughter
3. Sleep + Baleful Polymorph - If saves are too high for slow(sleep lets you use all the "enchantment" boosting items of which there are a lot)
4. Slow + Enervate - If immune to baleful or hideous, works great on Ancient Blighted Treant
5. If ALL else fails, Incendiary Runes + Frigid Touch with a decent tank or summons - This has a no save stagger so enemies can only hit once per round. It will also do chip damage but you have to use it every round.

Magic Deceiver is the one class so far that can actually support a party having LONG fights without everything going to poo. Its very good.

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by ajohnemus:

Magic Deceiver is carrying me through unfair with a fairly unoptimized party. Seriously, Blackwater would most likely have been impossible in chapter 3 without him.

1. Hideous Laughter + Slow
2. Slow + Baleful polymorph - if immune to hideous laughter
3. Sleep + Baleful Polymorph - If saves are too high for slow(sleep lets you use all the "enchantment" boosting items of which there are a lot)
4. Slow + Enervate - If immune to baleful or hideous, works great on Ancient Blighted Treant
5. If ALL else fails, Incendiary Runes + Frigid Touch with a decent tank or summons - This has a no save stagger so enemies can only hit once per round. It will also do chip damage but you have to use it every round.

Magic Deceiver is the one class so far that can actually support a party having LONG fights without everything going to poo. Its very good.

...I haven't even thought about combining different levels of spells

[CyberEagle]

Originally posted by Soul in Shadow:

Originally posted by Realm Walker:

They are kinda like kineticists in the way that they posses a powerfull offense, but are much less good in other roles.

I don't know about that, the False Prophet has access to Bless from level one, along with a number of buffs usually reserved for divine casters. It can mass cast any buff spell in its spell list from the moment it can cast them. The mass selective cure wounds spells (Cure wounds + Bless) are also a nice touch.

I'm pretty sure False Prophet is from the Expanded Content mod.