dragon shapeshifter build

[Micromanner]

hello, I want to play again and this time as dragon shapeshifter as dhampir. Can anyone recommend a build, or just which stats I need? I just want to be melee (no magic stuff)

[Razer]

Originally posted by hilburnashua:

Originally posted by Razer:

Best road to Gold Dragon is Elemental Rampager Druid and Angel into Gold Dragon with merged spellbook. Going for martial classes seems like a waste since your AB will be fixed at 25 at mythic rank 9. If you're worried about AC you can do 1 monk dip. The druid specific shirt will make up for the lost caster level and the capstone for elemental rampager isn't required. This build will give 100+ AB and a bunch of damage plus the best defenses from Angel spells. It's really strong. I personally wouldn't go for a martial class into Gold Dragon knowing you'll lose everything from your mythic path. Unless you go Trickster into Gold Dragon, but meh. Still wouldn't go Martial class even then.

Sure, but there is all that time before mythic 9 where you need to hit stuff. Paladin gives you smite and since Bloodrager is a charisma based class that works well for the higher AC opponents. Bloodrager also gives you access to the really nice arcane buffs like shield, mage armor + archmage, blink, mirror image for defense. With the Monk dip you can Robe of Order which gives another +2 to hit against chaotic opponents. With the Bloodrager class you also get the advantage or raging and when you get mythic 8 or 9 and you get to choose 3 unrestricted feats you can take a Extra Rage Power which will let you take Pounce. Not sure you could do that without having a rage base. With the absolutlely ridiculous strength and charisma I had with Cornugon Smash and one level in Thug I was able to fear Deskari himself with the might of my claws. That Balor General at Threshold ran away as well when it saw my might. :)

I am completely ignorant of what the Elemental Rampager involves and I cannot find an explanation of the Rampage ability other then it varies by elemental type you choose. And I am not familar with the druid specific item you mention. But I can definitely see the advantage of going Angel Path for the start if it lets you keep the merged spellbook when you switch. Demon might also be a powerful combination as I know they get some disgusting advantages, but I have never played that route.

Never had issues hitting stuff with Elemental Rampager. It's a medium bab class so it loses 4 AB vs a Martial class, there's plenty of buffs and it buffs itself with rampage with is untyped. Rampage is basically a rage ability you toggle. It amplifies natural attacks with +AB and +Damage. Upto a max of +5 to hit and damage. It also gives elemental damage boost. If you go Angel you can transform into Dragonkind III in Act 3 due to earlier access to spells. You'll be wiping the floor with stuff real fast. But those Angel buffs are insane too. Plus you get the benefit of full spellcaster class. And don't forget Angel adds all sorts of yummie self buffs to basically turn you into a martial with Divine Favor and Divine Power and the fantastic Sun Marked spell to add holy damage to all your attacks and your allies too. And don't forget about Storm of Justice to instakill annoying enemies like swarms and such in a huge AoE blast.

Plus even outside that you can transform freely into all sorts of other things because you're a Druid like Wolf for running fast or Smilodon for lots of natural attacks. It's great. One of the most fun classes I ever played.

It's awesome. If I were to build a Dragon Disciple I wouldn't go Gold Dragon. I would just go Martial style and stay in the Mythic Path of choice. For Gold Dragon going Elemental Rampager Druid Angel into Gold Dragon turns you into a holy dragon killing machine.

The only downside is Mythic Rank 8. You lose Angel powers (retain the spells), but Gold Dragon doesn't really give anything good. So you depower for one mythic rank.

[DragynDance]

Every shapeshifting type of class is really bad. You can kind of make sorc/monk/dragon disciple work, but it's still bad. If you want to play as a dragon, have someone else be a brown fur transmuter and turn your fighter or something into a dragon.

[Metrod125]

Originally posted by DragynDance:

Every shapeshifting type of class is really bad. You can kind of make sorc/monk/dragon disciple work, but it's still bad. If you want to play as a dragon, have someone else be a brown fur transmuter and turn your fighter or something into a dragon.

I never really understood the prospect of turning your melee party members into dragons.
Don't they HAVE to use natural attacks to do damage at that point? Cuz it seems more of a detriment when you're focusing on a weapon type that isn't claws and losing your crit focus feats.

[Megrim]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by Megrim:

Considering playing a true dragon without scrolls or casters that transform you in a part time dragon, the fact, that there is not a single detailed build to find in internet seems to be a hint, that this class is still not very good at all and needs some more love?

They already boosted the archetype to be more powerful than the pnp version. Originally this archetype only got Dragonkind II at level 20 as per pnp rules. Now it gets Dragonkind III at level 20 which is still too late to be useful imo. Druids and Wizards and such get Dragonkind III way earlier.

So the archetype was already buffed significantly, but it's still too weak compared to the rest of the classes to be of use. It would be decent if you get all the transformations 2-3 levels earlier. I would play it then. But yea. That's not happening I think. Honestly don't know why this archetype is so weak in pnp.

Also this is a bit of a necro for no reason right?

Yes, it is bit of necro, but not for me as I don ´t made a real attempt to really start playing that game as I still struggle to find a good class for myself for it. So I ´m fetching some opinions here and there that help me making a decission. Dragonshapeshifter sounds nice from RPG view, but you´re right, waiting so long to finally be able to shapeshift is a real downer that needs to be considered when picking this class and the fact that there is no build for it after that long time scares me.

Thx for help guys and I made a mistake with the real dragon saying, I meant dragon shapeshifter as real dragon not using scrolls or being transformed into a dragon, and not the golden Dragon path.

[pete3great]

Originally posted by mbradtke:

sure, just saying because people tend to minmax too much and forget to actually play the builds they want to and just have fun (:

Agree. On core and below, most builds are viable.

[Micromanner]

Originally posted by pete3great:

Originally posted by mbradtke:

sure, just saying because people tend to minmax too much and forget to actually play the builds they want to and just have fun (:

Agree. On core and below, most builds are viable.

Ya, that's why I played melee dragon rider lich, was fun to rp.

[Razer]

Originally posted by Megrim:

Originally posted by Razer:

They already boosted the archetype to be more powerful than the pnp version. Originally this archetype only got Dragonkind II at level 20 as per pnp rules. Now it gets Dragonkind III at level 20 which is still too late to be useful imo. Druids and Wizards and such get Dragonkind III way earlier.

So the archetype was already buffed significantly, but it's still too weak compared to the rest of the classes to be of use. It would be decent if you get all the transformations 2-3 levels earlier. I would play it then. But yea. That's not happening I think. Honestly don't know why this archetype is so weak in pnp.

Also this is a bit of a necro for no reason right?

Yes, it is bit of necro, but not for me as I don ´t made a real attempt to really start playing that game as I still struggle to find a good class for myself for it. So I ´m fetching some opinions here and there that help me making a decission. Dragonshapeshifter sounds nice from RPG view, but you´re right, waiting so long to finally be able to shapeshift is a real downer that needs to be considered when picking this class and the fact that there is no build for it after that long time scares me.

Thx for help guys and I made a mistake with the real dragon saying, I meant dragon shapeshifter as real dragon not using scrolls or being transformed into a dragon, and not the golden Dragon path.

If you really want to play the dragon shifter class then go for it. Not everything needs to be top tier and you do get Dragonkind III at level 20. Dragonkind II is already pretty potent. You won't struggle in the game with it I think. It's a very straightforward class. At level 9 you can turn into a dragon as per the Dragonkind I spell. If you have Master Shapeshifter Mythic Power (which you should take as your first power!) then you can do this indefinitely plus you get bonusses to your stats while shifted.

[Metrod125]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by Megrim:

Yes, it is bit of necro, but not for me as I don ´t made a real attempt to really start playing that game as I still struggle to find a good class for myself for it. So I ´m fetching some opinions here and there that help me making a decission. Dragonshapeshifter sounds nice from RPG view, but you´re right, waiting so long to finally be able to shapeshift is a real downer that needs to be considered when picking this class and the fact that there is no build for it after that long time scares me.

Thx for help guys and I made a mistake with the real dragon saying, I meant dragon shapeshifter as real dragon not using scrolls or being transformed into a dragon, and not the golden Dragon path.

If you really want to play the dragon shifter class then go for it. Not everything needs to be top tier and you do get Dragonkind III at level 20. Dragonkind II is already pretty potent. You won't struggle in the game with it I think. It's a very straightforward class. At level 9 you can turn into a dragon as per the Dragonkind I spell. If you have Master Shapeshifter Mythic Power (which you should take as your first power!) then you can do this indefinitely plus you get bonusses to your stats while shifted.

I would recommend to instead pick either Brutally Incarnate or Last Stand. The former because after act 1 you’ll run into enemies that’ll resist claw damage or the latter if the idea of dying displeases you.
Master Shapeshifter is a great mythic feat, but in my experience it’s a trap to pick early. Even on core.

[Razer]

Originally posted by Metrod125:

Originally posted by Razer:

If you really want to play the dragon shifter class then go for it. Not everything needs to be top tier and you do get Dragonkind III at level 20. Dragonkind II is already pretty potent. You won't struggle in the game with it I think. It's a very straightforward class. At level 9 you can turn into a dragon as per the Dragonkind I spell. If you have Master Shapeshifter Mythic Power (which you should take as your first power!) then you can do this indefinitely plus you get bonusses to your stats while shifted.

I would recommend to instead pick either Brutally Incarnate or Last Stand. The former because after act 1 you’ll run into enemies that’ll resist claw damage or the latter if the idea of dying displeases you.
Master Shapeshifter is a great mythic feat, but in my experience it’s a trap to pick early. Even on core.

Depends on your options for polymorph. +4 to physicial stats that stack with everything is very good. Especially early. If you're playing a martial style class then Master Shapeshifter is nearly better than anything else.

[Metrod125]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by Metrod125:

I would recommend to instead pick either Brutally Incarnate or Last Stand. The former because after act 1 you’ll run into enemies that’ll resist claw damage or the latter if the idea of dying displeases you.
Master Shapeshifter is a great mythic feat, but in my experience it’s a trap to pick early. Even on core.

Depends on your options for polymorph. +4 to physicial stats that stack with everything is very good. Especially early. If you're playing a martial style class then Master Shapeshifter is nearly better than anything else.

Like I said, its a fine mythic, but to some dying (and reloading) feels bad and seeing X damage (reduced) also feels bad. Just saying to delay the acquisition of it for something that'll smooth the combat experience.

[Megrim]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by Megrim:

Yes, it is bit of necro, but not for me as I don ´t made a real attempt to really start playing that game as I still struggle to find a good class for myself for it. So I ´m fetching some opinions here and there that help me making a decission. Dragonshapeshifter sounds nice from RPG view, but you´re right, waiting so long to finally be able to shapeshift is a real downer that needs to be considered when picking this class and the fact that there is no build for it after that long time scares me.

Thx for help guys and I made a mistake with the real dragon saying, I meant dragon shapeshifter as real dragon not using scrolls or being transformed into a dragon, and not the golden Dragon path.

If you really want to play the dragon shifter class then go for it. Not everything needs to be top tier and you do get Dragonkind III at level 20. Dragonkind II is already pretty potent. You won't struggle in the game with it I think. It's a very straightforward class. At level 9 you can turn into a dragon as per the Dragonkind I spell. If you have Master Shapeshifter Mythic Power (which you should take as your first power!) then you can do this indefinitely plus you get bonusses to your stats while shifted.

Thank you, If I pick Dragonshifter I ´ll probably pick master shapehifter first to stay in the dragonform, I will play on normal difficulty and so it shall be ok to pick it first.

As there is a big patch coming for golden Dragon path, I´ll wait a bit longer to start a game, maybe there might be some more changes with dragonshifter too, for example earlier pick of dragonform 1. If not, maybe golden dragon form might be earlier available then level 9 so golden dragon path is the way to go for dragon players.

[DragynDance]

The main problem with dragonshifter too, is iirc, it's a wisdom class, but almost every other dragon related class/subclass, and ability is charisma, so it doesn't synergize with anything else dragony. You're better off going sorc/monk/dragon disciple, or having a brown-fur transmuter in your party to turn you into a dragon.

[mbradtke]

dragon shifter is still the class that gets earliest acces to dragonform, so that is a good reason to pick one, other classes will get it later

[Razer]

Originally posted by mbradtke:

dragon shifter is still the class that gets earliest acces to dragonform, so that is a good reason to pick one, other classes will get it later

That's true for only Dragonkind I.

Dragonkind I:
Dragonblood shifter level 9
Wizard level 11

Dragonkind II:
Dragonblood shifter level 14
Wizard level 13

Dragonkind III:
Dragonblood shifter level 20
Wizard level 15

And with merged spellbooks you can also count Dragonkind III as part of the Shapechange spell (level 8 spell) which Druids among others can then already cast at level 13-14

for Wizards merged with Lich they can also cast these spells way earlier even than listed above. Wizard at level 11 going Lich gains +3 spell levels so can cast level 14 spells already. So gains Dragonkind II at level 11.

This is why a class that focusses on Dragon changing seems lagging behind classes that aren't even focussed on it. This is why Elemental Rampager Druid with merged spellbook Angel is so en vogue for Gold Dragon. Since you can already transform into a Dragon (per dragonkind III) in Act 3 and then also use the Elemental Rampager buffs to natural attacks on that as well.

[DragynDance]

I just hate that dragon shifter isn't a charisma class, that seems like a bit failure on owlcat's part, imo. How you gonna make a class that is an actual dragon, and not make it charisma based.