All these immortal beings aren't actually... immortal

[Razer]

So there's lot's of dialogue calling you mortal implying the person speaking to you is immortal. Which... is plainly not true as I've killed them or their kind many times.

Why is this game or universe stuck on calling ageless beings immortal? Immortal means you can't die. But practically all beings in this game can die. So none of them are actually immortal. Just kind of wondering where this went wrong and why no one did anything about it. Immortal sounds cooler? Even if it isn't actually true?

[Glyph]

Immortal has several definitions based on context. The OP is just being obtuse to stir up argument.

[Schlumpsha]

Originally posted by Eldrin:

So what happens to a soul that has been judged when it dies?

Usually it becomes a petitioner (a sort weakling pre-Outsider) in one of the Outer Planes. From there the soul either undergoes gradual changes and becomes a proper member of the plane's dominate outsider race. Or they fall prey for said outsiders, depending on the plane's nature. Abaddon's petitioners are particularly unlucky.

There are some exceptions. Such as Golarion's believe system of Reincarnation. A soul that believes in this will not be judged by Pharasma. And instead gets redirected to the Material Plane to be born again as a baby. Usually without memories of their past life(s).

[Aranador]

A rock is immortal - you can not kill that which does not live.

Anyway - to be mortal is to suffer from mortality. Mortality is having life which is finite. There is an expiry date on a mortal life. An immortal does not have that expiry date. On earth, there is a jellyfish that is immortal. You can bet it gets eaten and killed, but it will never die of old age.

[Erei]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia:

Immortal doesn't mean unkillable and never did.

Well maybe not in video games based on this type of lore, but in the real world it does. But I've already established it's because of the coolness factor. Immortal just sounds better than ageless.

And how would you call someone who can't die of old age IRL ? Oh yeah, an immortal. Vampires and other stuff of that kind are often called immortal, even though we all know they can actually die.

Otherwise nothing can be immortal in the universe. Even the universe itself is likely to "die" at one point in the very far future.

[mk11]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by mk11:

Mortal in the pathfinder means a soul that has not yet been judged.

The opposite of mortal is not immortal. The implication in your first sentence is false.

But immortal is the opposite of mortal... I mean. Look up the words in a dictionary. It's just used incorrectly in fantasy lore.

"Im" in immortal literally means "not" in latin. Mortalis coming from the word mors meaning death. Translations for Mortalis means "subject to death" and immortalis means "not subject to death"

Immortal doesn't mean only not dying from old age or not aging, it means not dying at all.

It is a fantasy world. You are reading the English translation from the unknown Common tongue. Mortal has a precise meaning in that fantasy world of which mortal is a good English translation. If you look at the source material this will be clarified for you. There are lots of words in this game which do not exactly match English (e.g. fauchard, dwarf, god, angel, spider).

[Razer]

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

Originally posted by Razer:

Well maybe not in video games based on this type of lore, but in the real world it does. But I've already established it's because of the coolness factor. Immortal just sounds better than ageless.

Tell us you've never read a dictionary without telling us. Immortal has NEVER meant unkillable.

The latin language disagrees with you.

[plasticsoda]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

Tell us you've never read a dictionary without telling us. Immortal has NEVER meant unkillable.

The latin language disagrees with you.

Words are subject to the context they're employed and, yes, Pathfinder is peak fedora tipping late-2000s/early 2010s subversive/iconoclastic fantasy world, it takes a lot from FR/DL and other fantasy works and somehow make it lame. I like the games but the lore is just plain uninteresting, you really have to focus on low-level adventuring and try to ignore the greater cosmology to enjoy it. Hellknights are cool tough

[𝑨𝖕𝖍𝖎𝖔𝖓]

Immortal has always meant not able to die of old age. It doesnt mean invincible or unkillable which is also part of the reason why we have separate words for those things.

What happens when you cut off the head of an immortal or the source of their power/immortality? They typically die.

Its obvious, even in the majority of dictionaries, where you can read the other many definitions of this word and see the context they use. Some Fantasy games, TV series and movies have been like this a very long time. Vampires & Highlander are only a few examples. There are a metric ton in literature and media.

Context can be everything.

[Schlumpsha]

Originally posted by Pathfinder:

Any entity that has a soul but has not yet been judged by Pharasma in the Boneyard is considered mortal.

Individual creatures who experience mortality are known as mortals, as opposed to those who do not, who are often known as immortals. However, immortality is not simply the absence of mortality—perpetually living mortals still receive judgment from Pharasma at the ends of their lives.

[Razer]

Originally posted by Schlumpsha:

Originally posted by Pathfinder:

Any entity that has a soul but has not yet been judged by Pharasma in the Boneyard is considered mortal.

Individual creatures who experience mortality are known as mortals, as opposed to those who do not, who are often known as immortals. However, immortality is not simply the absence of mortality—perpetually living mortals still receive judgment from Pharasma at the ends of their lives.

Yes I get there's a role playing aspect that explains it. It helps. Still incorrect use of the word immortal though.

[mk11]

Who are these immortal beings you have killed and what said they were immortal?

You started with, "So there's lot's of dialogue calling you mortal implying the person speaking to you is immortal". This suggests that the only person calling them "immortal" was you. So do you have something in game saying they are "immortal"?

[Razer]

Originally posted by mk11:

Who are these immortal beings you have killed and what said they were immortal?

You started with, "So there's lot's of dialogue calling you mortal implying the person speaking to you is immortal". This suggests that the only person calling them "immortal" was you. So do you have something in game saying they are "immortal"?

Demons for one.

[Yannir]

Originally posted by Razer:

I see, so the source where they got it from was also wrong and people just kept using it incorrectly.

Originally posted by TaKo:

immortal =/= unkillable

immortal actually means you can't die in any shape or form. Either from old age or from someone sticking a shiv in your gut. The fact that Tolkien also got it wrong doesn't mean your point is valid. Immortal isn't a fantasy term. It's actually a word that has meaning outside of the genre. Except in the genre I guess a lot of the time it's just used incorrectly because immortal sounds cool.

Except by your own definition Tolkien did not get it wrong. In Arda, only the Ainur and the souls of Iluvatars children are ever called "immortal". Elves themselves are never called immortal but that they have immortal souls, just like Men do.

While the souls of elves that have lost their mortal shell go to the Halls of Mandos in Valinor and are re-embodied there to join their kin in Aman, the souls of Men go to a place only Iluvatar themself knows to await there for Dagor Dagorath at the end of all ages.

Neither Morgoth nor Sauron died. Or Saruman. Morgoth was sealed outside of the known universe to spend the rest of his days there, and Saurons spirit was scattered after the events of LotR but it eventually reformed so weak that he could never again assume a physical form. Whatever power he'd had was destroyed with the Ring. Saruman suffered a similar fate and, since he'd never created anything like the Ring to anchor his power to an earthly vessel like Sauron did, he could never reform a physical body again.

[Razer]

Originally posted by Yannir:

Originally posted by Razer:

I see, so the source where they got it from was also wrong and people just kept using it incorrectly.

immortal actually means you can't die in any shape or form. Either from old age or from someone sticking a shiv in your gut. The fact that Tolkien also got it wrong doesn't mean your point is valid. Immortal isn't a fantasy term. It's actually a word that has meaning outside of the genre. Except in the genre I guess a lot of the time it's just used incorrectly because immortal sounds cool.

Except by your own definition Tolkien did not get it wrong. In Arda, only the Ainur and the souls of Iluvatars children are ever called "immortal". Elves themselves are never called immortal but that they have immortal souls, just like Men do.

While the souls of elves that have lost their mortal shell go to the Halls of Mandos in Valinor and are re-embodied there to join their kin in Aman, the souls of Men go to a place only Iluvatar themself knows to await there for Dagor Dagorath at the end of all ages.

Neither Morgoth nor Sauron died. Or Saruman. Morgoth was sealed outside of the known universe to spend the rest of his days there, and Saurons spirit was scattered after the events of LotR but it eventually reformed so weak that he could never again assume a physical form. Whatever power he'd had was destroyed with the Ring. Saruman suffered a similar fate and, since he'd never created anything like the Ring to anchor his power to an earthly vessel like Sauron did, he could never reform a physical body again.

I think the elves call the other races mortal which directly implies they are immortal themselves or see themselves as such. At least they do in the movies. Haven't read the books in a hot minute so wouldn't be able to say.

[TaKo]

Originally posted by Razer:

Man you guys are so into the actual fantays trope meanings that you simply don't want to actually grasp the original meaning of the word immortal meaning not being able to die. But whatever my dudes. You want to believe it's just ageless go ahead and be delusional about it. In the real world immortal means unable to die

this is such a weird thing to argue about

in 'the real world' immortality is not a thing also