All these immortal beings aren't actually... immortal

[Razer]

So there's lot's of dialogue calling you mortal implying the person speaking to you is immortal. Which... is plainly not true as I've killed them or their kind many times.

Why is this game or universe stuck on calling ageless beings immortal? Immortal means you can't die. But practically all beings in this game can die. So none of them are actually immortal. Just kind of wondering where this went wrong and why no one did anything about it. Immortal sounds cooler? Even if it isn't actually true?

[TaKo]

immortal =/= unkillable

this is pretty basic stuff and very common across many mythos irl and many fictional universes

for example tolkien elves stop aging after a point and will never die without outside action(i.e combat)

some mythos do make some immortal beings actually unkillable via resurrection/reincarnation/etc and demon lords in pathfinder are normally very hard to kill too since if they are killed they just 'respawn' in their home plane while becoming vulnerable for a year before getting that 'respawn' ability back

[Erei]

Even God can die in Pathfinder. Apparently, a certain God of war is assasinated in the very near future. Yet they are "immortal" because 1/it's certainly not easy 2/they don't die of old age (even Elves die of old age) 3/they are immune to most mundane death 4/they are old as hell. IIRC Pharasma is not from this universe, but another, she's like older than the universe or something.
I mean, it's not like deskari can trip in his kitchen, bang his head on a table and die. We can.

To kill a demon lord you need to kill it twice in a year. Also, the player being the main character, they get lots of "plot armor". Galfrey is very dumb so you can be the hero. Demon lord are dumb and not actually scary so you can kill them.
Or like confronting a certain demon lord in their own domain, twice (angel path), where their power there are next to absolute. Their domain is literally an expansion of their will.


For reference, pagans Gods were often called immortal but were not. Norse Gods die aplenty during Ragnarok, Greek Gods can die (they just don't)...

[mk11]

Mortal in the pathfinder means a soul that has not yet been judged.

The opposite of mortal is not immortal. The implication in your first sentence is false.

[DavetheSpaceCowboy]

Originally posted by Razer:

So there's lot's of dialogue calling you mortal implying the person speaking to you is immortal. Which... is plainly not true as I've killed them or their kind many times.

Why is this game or universe stuck on calling ageless beings immortal? Immortal means you can't die. But practically all beings in this game can die. So none of them are actually immortal. Just kind of wondering where this went wrong and why no one did anything about it. Immortal sounds cooler? Even if it isn't actually true?

In the common fantasy context, that's just how the words mortal/immortal are colloquially used. There's no such thing as unkillable in these systems, so mortal/immortal is applied when describing finite and potentially infinite lifespans. This is pretty ubiquitous throughout fantasy and is in no way exclusive to Pathfinder or D&D.

[Erei]

In Tolkien books, Elves are also called immortal because they don't die of old age. But they can still die from basically everything else.

[Razer]

I see, so the source where they got it from was also wrong and people just kept using it incorrectly.

Originally posted by TaKo:

immortal =/= unkillable

immortal actually means you can't die in any shape or form. Either from old age or from someone sticking a shiv in your gut. The fact that Tolkien also got it wrong doesn't mean your point is valid. Immortal isn't a fantasy term. It's actually a word that has meaning outside of the genre. Except in the genre I guess a lot of the time it's just used incorrectly because immortal sounds cool.

[Shadow]

"Immortal" meaning they just won't die no matter what tends to be the exception rather than the rule across all fantasy and myth. Not just in Pathfinder and Tolkien. Most often it only means they won't die from old age. Usually, but not always, this includes some variant of eternal youth as well. Or at least a halt to the aging process at some point in their development.

Some immortal mythical beings can die quite easily. Forget to put sunscreen on and boom, dead, for example. Others are extremely difficult to kill and remain alive even after being chopped into little bits and scattered to all the corners of the world.

[Razer]

Originally posted by Shadow:

"Immortal" meaning they just won't die no matter what tends to be the exception rather than the rule across all fantasy and myth. Not just in Pathfinder and Tolkien. Most often it only means they won't die from old age. Usually, but not always, this includes some variant of eternal youth as well. Or at least a halt to the aging process at some point in their development.

Some immortal mythical beings can die quite easily. Forget to put sunscreen on and boom, dead, for example. Others are extremely difficult to kill and remain alive even after being chopped into little bits and scattered to all the corners of the world.

I'm sorry man I just have to laugh at this. Going from immortal to just kind of "hard to kill" is just laughable.

[Shadow]

It's really not that absurd if you think about it. Immortality and relative difficulty of killing are two very different concepts. Immortality means you have no time limit on your life. Being hard to kill means your death will probably be from old age.

A lot of people understandably confuse them of being one and the same, but the fact is you can be mortal and very hard to kill, like Achilles or a '90s action movie hero. Or you could be immortal but every bit as susceptible as mortals to lethal outside forces like diseases or bullets.

[Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia]

Immortal doesn't mean unkillable and never did.

[Razer]

Originally posted by Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia:

Immortal doesn't mean unkillable and never did.

Well maybe not in video games based on this type of lore, but in the real world it does. But I've already established it's because of the coolness factor. Immortal just sounds better than ageless.

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by mk11:

Mortal in the pathfinder means a soul that has not yet been judged.

The opposite of mortal is not immortal. The implication in your first sentence is false.

So what happens to a soul that has been judged when it dies?

[Razer]

Originally posted by mk11:

Mortal in the pathfinder means a soul that has not yet been judged.

The opposite of mortal is not immortal. The implication in your first sentence is false.

But immortal is the opposite of mortal... I mean. Look up the words in a dictionary. It's just used incorrectly in fantasy lore.

"Im" in immortal literally means "not" in latin. Mortalis coming from the word mors meaning death. Translations for Mortalis means "subject to death" and immortalis means "not subject to death"

Immortal doesn't mean only not dying from old age or not aging, it means not dying at all.

[fluxtorrent]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia:

Immortal doesn't mean unkillable and never did.

Well maybe not in video games based on this type of lore, but in the real world it does. But I've already established it's because of the coolness factor. Immortal just sounds better than ageless.

Tell us you've never read a dictionary without telling us. Immortal has NEVER meant unkillable.

[Nosferatu]

Originally posted by Razer:

I see, so the source where they got it from was also wrong and people just kept using it incorrectly.

Originally posted by TaKo:

immortal =/= unkillable

immortal actually means you can't die in any shape or form. Either from old age or from someone sticking a shiv in your gut. The fact that Tolkien also got it wrong doesn't mean your point is valid. Immortal isn't a fantasy term. It's actually a word that has meaning outside of the genre. Except in the genre I guess a lot of the time it's just used incorrectly because immortal sounds cool.

Words are defined by the way they're used. So no, they're not using the words mortal and immortal wrong, this is one well-established and widely understood way of using those words.