Turn Based mode or normal one?

[[XMT] Ronin]

Hello everyone, after about 83 hours into the game playing ONLY in turn based mode, i am starting to wonder since every video i see on Youtube is in normal fast paced mode, if this is the correct or intended way to play the game. It's certainly an option that Devs allows, but i am not sure it's optimal for fights.

So i ask experienced people: Is it worth it? What's the downside of it?

For me, i like to have control of each member of my party and decide which skill to use and when, note that i am not a good player of Pathfinder and i struggle with mechanics a little bit, but managed to get 80 hours into the game so i guess i am doing somewhat ok. Please let me know the pros and cons of both sides

[mk11]

Upsides of RTWP are it is faster to play, less dependent on initiative, mounts are less important.

Downsides are it can be a twitch feast if you want control, AOE spells are harder to target, it is less dependent on initiative, mounts are less important, skills such as Protective Luck are an absolute pain.

Note that the best character builds differ depending which you use. E.g. in turn-based a mounted character benefits a lot from Improved Initiative, Pickpocket background etc., because if they attack before the enemy they can move to enemy and launch a full attack before the enemy can do anything.

[Triple G]

Except for the 5 ft step, and certain free or swift action uses - they´re basically the same. RTWP has less issues, and i personally would recommend the slow motion button, and adjusted use of the auto-pause features.

If You fight many swarms, or want to make better use of free / swift actions: use turn based.

[Razer]

Biggest difference between the two is that everyone's turn starts at the same time and movement isn't restricted to initiative. So everyone moves right at combat start. This does not happen in turn based where everyone has to wait for their turn to do anything. Meaning if you have high initiative and enemies are grouped at the start you can throw a fireball at them while they just stand there. In RtwP by the time you cast your fireball enemies are in a completely different location, probably in your face and proccing Attacks of Opportunity while you cast your spell at an empty spot. Things like charge are also cumbersome to use while in RtwP since it's just faster to move your characters right away instead of standing still waiting for your turn to start and then charge. And you could be charging at someone standing in your face too by that time proccing yet again AoO.

Another difference is that in turn based you get to control your abilities in the perfect moment. There's abilities you can use during movement phase and there's swift abilities etc etc. The action economy is a lot more efficient in turn based. Mostly you'll likely be doing something different in RtwP like moving your character when maybe you want to use your movement for something else. And you will not get the most out of swift abilities in RtwP. You need to pause and make sure your characters are doing the right thing.

That said, as mk11 mentioned, RtwP is a lot faster. Fighting 10+ enemies takes forever in turn based, while this same combat might be over in mere seconds in RtwP. The game was made for RtwP, but it's also upto your personal preference. Turn based makes the game a lot easier to play. For example due to the turn restriction to movement. Depending on distance between you and enemy you should sometimes get multiple attacks off before they reach you, but in RtwP there is not restriction in movement, everyone just keeps going. So a slow enemy will still reach you by the time you've done one attack even though you should be able to kite them easily in turn based.

[Yannir]

Real Time With Pause, or RTWP, is a sort of "classic" way to play cRPGs due to the old Bioware games like Baldur's Gate 2 that played exclusively this way. Not normal but classic.

Turn-Based Mode (TB) has largely become popular in cRPGs within like the last 8-10 years due to Larian adopting it in their games.

I'd imagine most people, particularly content creators, use a combination of both. RTWP makes trash fights go much quicker but on the other hand TB affords the player more agency in difficult fights.

[Soul]

I play mostly turn based....

but I do switch to real time for things like trash mobs.... or certain fights where I can take more of an advantage of real time.... such as the water elemental fight in the Maze.... that fight is super easy kiting it around table while other party member pelt it with arrows...

[Razer]

Originally posted by Yannir:

Real Time With Pause, or RTWP, is a sort of "classic" way to play cRPGs due to the old Bioware games like Baldur's Gate 2 that played exclusively this way. Not normal but classic.

Turn-Based Mode (TB) has largely become popular in cRPGs within like the last 8-10 years due to Larian adopting it in their games.

I'd imagine most people, particularly content creators, use a combination of both. RTWP makes trash fights go much quicker but on the other hand TB affords the player more agency in difficult fights.

Yes, important to mention is that you can switch between the two whenever you want. So it's not a fixed choice when you start the game.

[[XMT] Ronin]

I see, thanks for the answers, i think i will stay in turn based mode then, and play off those qualities. I never played a game with real time with pause and i generally don't enjoy them. I think the only one was Dragon Age Origins but there you can setup all the strategies for the party to do what you want, when you want it, so i guess it's a little different

[[XMT] Ronin]

Originally posted by Razer:

Biggest difference between the two is that everyone's turn starts at the same time and movement isn't restricted to initiative. So everyone moves right at combat start. This does not happen in turn based where everyone has to wait for their turn to do anything. Meaning if you have high initiative and enemies are grouped at the start you can throw a fireball at them while they just stand there. In RtwP by the time you cast your fireball enemies are in a completely different location, probably in your face and proccing Attacks of Opportunity while you cast your spell at an empty spot. Things like charge are also cumbersome to use while in RtwP since it's just faster to move your characters right away instead of standing still waiting for your turn to start and then charge. And you could be charging at someone standing in your face too by that time proccing yet again AoO.

Another difference is that in turn based you get to control your abilities in the perfect moment. There's abilities you can use during movement phase and there's swift abilities etc etc. The action economy is a lot more efficient in turn based. Mostly you'll likely be doing something different in RtwP like moving your character when maybe you want to use your movement for something else. And you will not get the most out of swift abilities in RtwP. You need to pause and make sure your characters are doing the right thing.

That said, as mk11 mentioned, RtwP is a lot faster. Fighting 10+ enemies takes forever in turn based, while this same combat might be over in mere seconds in RtwP. The game was made for RtwP, but it's also upto your personal preference. Turn based makes the game a lot easier to play. For example due to the turn restriction to movement. Depending on distance between you and enemy you should sometimes get multiple attacks off before they reach you, but in RtwP there is not restriction in movement, everyone just keeps going. So a slow enemy will still reach you by the time you've done one attack even though you should be able to kite them easily in turn based.

I guess it is true that if you have a good game or just mechanical knowledge of Pathfinder you can find the mode a lot easy with the correct stats and a little bit of minmaxing... wich i am not doing, as i am a new player and never played Pathfinder... it's been very hard to understand game concepts and i still don't have a full grasp, so although i know that initiative is very strong on TB mode, i don't really build around it, so monsters are sometimes very strong and with much higher stats than my characters (that i don't know how to use well, lol).

Maybe next run i will do with RTwP mode to see if i am losing out on some good experiences, but right now it's been a bit traumatic learning everything ahah

[Triple G]

Originally posted by Razer:

Biggest difference between the two is that everyone's turn starts at the same time and movement isn't restricted to initiative.

This is not true. The people will start according to their initiative, while the people attacking will start the turn so to speak. While in RTWP You can attack with multiple people if You wish so.

There are the same turns as in turn based mode, while any "turn" will take a few seconds. Of course anyone can move at any time, but they can´t take actions at will. The actual "turn start" is according to their initiative, while certain "surprise rounds" are also represented. And You can switch their actions while the timer goes up...

Originally posted by XMT Ronin:

I think the only one was Dragon Age Origins but there you can setup all the strategies for the party to do what you want, when you want it, so i guess it's a little different

Yes - here it´s very basic. DA:O is still the yardstick in that regard, and it´s beyond me why they haven´t improved the system after kingmaker.

Still the RTWP mode has less issues - like in turn based You sometimes can´t do anything and waste a turn, but most of all, the dice roll are distributed better in real time mode, as the RNG tends to roll similar numbers in a row, which You see in turn based mode.

[Draken]

I generally switch around quite a bit.

Some more things:

- The speed at which you finish some fights in RtwP can not be stated often enough. My fight with several Vrocks while freeing Dresden was basically: "Pause, tell Ember to use sleep hex, unpause, watch Vrock die in 2 seconds."
If you have a fight where you were using only auto attacks, cantrips and maybe one spell, that fight will be x times faster where x is the number of characters in your party. If you are using some enemy actions to deal damage it's even faster as those enemy turns also happen simultanious.

- RtwP lets you intercept enemies.
During turn based combat enemy melee units can just casually walk past your own melee units to put your casters in a headlock. In RtwP you can intercept enemies which will generally stop them from moving and start fighting the interceptor. Very useful to keep enemies off your spell slingers.

- RtwP lets you do alpha strikes.
When you start a fight and have a small hallway that all the enemies are going to charge through, RtwP lets you pause, select all your casters and put a grease, web and stinking cloud at the same spot at the start of the combat, before any faster enemies can make it through. Or whatever other spell combination you want to unload on a target.

Turn based definitely has fights where it's better, but I don't think I would enjoy the game as much if it was the only mode.

I would suggest the next time you are about to fight a group of enemies that you usually beat with just auto-attacks and cantrips (or something similar), just switch into RtwP and experience the difference.

[[XMT] Ronin]

Originally posted by Draken:

I generally switch around quite a bit.

Some more things:

- The speed at which you finish some fights in RtwP can not be stated often enough. My fight with several Vrocks while freeing Dresden was basically: "Pause, tell Ember to use sleep hex, unpause, watch Vrock die in 2 seconds."
If you have a fight where you were using only auto attacks, cantrips and maybe one spell, that fight will be x times faster where x is the number of characters in your party. If you are using some enemy actions to deal damage it's even faster as those enemy turns also happen simultanious.

- RtwP lets you intercept enemies.
During turn based combat enemy melee units can just casually walk past your own melee units to put your casters in a headlock. In RtwP you can intercept enemies which will generally stop them from moving and start fighting the interceptor. Very useful to keep enemies off your spell slingers.

- RtwP lets you do alpha strikes.
When you start a fight and have a small hallway that all the enemies are going to charge through, RtwP lets you pause, select all your casters and put a grease, web and stinking cloud at the same spot at the start of the combat, before any faster enemies can make it through. Or whatever other spell combination you want to unload on a target.

Turn based definitely has fights where it's better, but I don't think I would enjoy the game as much if it was the only mode.

I would suggest the next time you are about to fight a group of enemies that you usually beat with just auto-attacks and cantrips (or something similar), just switch into RtwP and experience the difference.

Very interesting points, especially the peeling for your casters, because that has happened in the past, where enemies just fly to my casters and clap them... I will try on some trash mobs, or maybe before a fight just save, and try with both modes, thank you, very insightful

[Draken]

Originally posted by Triple G:

Originally posted by Razer:

Biggest difference between the two is that everyone's turn starts at the same time and movement isn't restricted to initiative.

This is not true. The people will start according to their initiative, while the people attacking will start the turn so to speak. While in RTWP You can attack with multiple people if You wish so.

There are the same turns as in turn based mode, while any "turn" will take a few seconds. Of course anyone can move at any time, but they can´t take actions at will. The actual "turn start" is according to their initiative, while certain "surprise rounds" are also represented. And You can switch their actions while the timer goes up...

While that is true, the effects are diminished a great deal in RtwP. In Turn based someone who rolled an initiative of 14 would be able to do their whole turn before someone with an initative of 13 got to act. In RtwP time doesn't stop running so the one with 13 initiative will do their actions with only a slight delay in comparison. Melee characters for example will often immediately attack simultanious when they first get in each others range.

Originally posted by Triple G:

Originally posted by XMT Ronin:

I think the only one was Dragon Age Origins but there you can setup all the strategies for the party to do what you want, when you want it, so i guess it's a little different

Yes - here it´s very basic. DA:O is still the yardstick in that regard, and it´s beyond me why they haven´t improved the system after kingmaker.

Still the RTWP mode has less issues - like in turn based You sometimes can´t do anything and waste a turn, but most of all, the dice roll are distributed better in real time mode, as the RNG tends to roll similar numbers in a row, which You see in turn based mode.

The RNG is the bog standard unity RNG. The same that is in hundres of thousands of other unity games. So if it indeed was to have that obvious non random patterns, it would have been reported and fixed ages ago.

I agree that the Tactics system of Dragon Age Origins was the best.

[Razer]

Originally posted by Triple G:

Originally posted by Razer:

Biggest difference between the two is that everyone's turn starts at the same time and movement isn't restricted to initiative.

This is not true. The people will start according to their initiative, while the people attacking will start the turn so to speak. While in RTWP You can attack with multiple people if You wish so.

There are the same turns as in turn based mode, while any "turn" will take a few seconds. Of course anyone can move at any time, but they can´t take actions at will. The actual "turn start" is according to their initiative, while certain "surprise rounds" are also represented. And You can switch their actions while the timer goes up...

Originally posted by XMT Ronin:

I think the only one was Dragon Age Origins but there you can setup all the strategies for the party to do what you want, when you want it, so i guess it's a little different

Yes - here it´s very basic. DA:O is still the yardstick in that regard, and it´s beyond me why they haven´t improved the system after kingmaker.

Still the RTWP mode has less issues - like in turn based You sometimes can´t do anything and waste a turn, but most of all, the dice roll are distributed better in real time mode, as the RNG tends to roll similar numbers in a row, which You see in turn based mode.

I'm sorry you're wrong. While actions like attacking and casting spells start as part of initiative, movement does not. Everyone in RtwP starts movement at the same time instantly. You can move to the backline and wait for your turn to start and attack in melee. While in Turn based you have to wait for your initiative to start moving. RtwP is extremely advantageous to melee characters vs ranged. You can kill enemies with Attacks of Opportunity before your turn even starts! For ranged characters initiative is far more important. For Turn Based initiative is important for everyone. The only downside is if you have low initiative you are flatfooted since everyone is flatfooted in the first round before taking action.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by mk11:

skills such as Protective Luck are an absolute pain.

you can autocast chant/cackle and it will automatically repeat infinitely every round even if you dont take an action but just have a character idle with it on

you actually click significantly less to maintain hexes on rtwp, just gotta make sure your chant/cackle is in range of the targets that need refreshing

[Vertigo]

I prefer RtwP due to the sheer number of trash mobs. I usually only keep my focus on the healer as most classes can do their thing without help. Whenever I come up against a hard/problematic fight, I switch to turn based mode and manage everything.