Instalar o Steam
Iniciar sessão
|
Idioma
简体中文 (Chinês Simplificado)
繁體中文 (Chinês Tradicional)
日本語 (Japonês)
한국어 (Coreano)
ไทย (Tailandês)
Български (Búlgaro)
Čeština (Checo)
Dansk (Dinamarquês)
Deutsch (Alemão)
English (Inglês)
Español-España (Espanhol de Espanha)
Español-Latinoamérica (Espanhol da América Latina)
Ελληνικά (Grego)
Français (Francês)
Italiano (Italiano)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonésio)
Magyar (Húngaro)
Nederlands (Holandês)
Norsk (Norueguês)
Polski (Polaco)
Português (Brasil)
Română (Romeno)
Русский (Russo)
Suomi (Finlandês)
Svenska (Sueco)
Türkçe (Turco)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamita)
Українська (Ucraniano)
Relatar problema de tradução
O autor deste tópico marcou um post como resposta à pergunta dele.
Regras e Orientações das Discussões
Denunciar este post
That aside, its not fair to compare it to a sorcerer; its like saying that paladin is terrible compared to a cleric at divine magic. Its true, but its not fair. The sorcerer is a dedicated caster, level 9 spells and class specifics that make it stronger at magic. The magus is a hybrid caster/fighter, with class features that are not dedicated to magic and only level 6 spells max.
It's not this class is weak, it just weak in wotr early, when later you can do Melee Touch attack, it is one of the strongest points of this class.
If you say this class is useless and compare to pure sorcerer, I don't think you play enough yet to know the difference since now your mindset about classes just too simple and just black and white.
Compared to magus, you lose the arcane pool, the ability to use a spell as part of an attack, free mage metamagic. And that's just the base magus. Subclass you can lose more (like access to pet for arcane rider), not mentioning sword saint that is just straight up better if you go melee (crit, crit and crit, but also int for AC).
Then, strength is better than dex for the time you don't cast spells. You can 2hand the 1handed weapon and you get a bigger multiplier if you use strength than if you use dex. No it's not explained anywhere, welcome to Owlcat's game and pathfinder.
Not saying it's straight up bad. An arcane scoundrel who went arcane trickster, devil mythic path with free hellfire ray, and all the fire/ray gear, spaming that ray, is probably really good. And I personally sometimes take 1level dip in AS for mage armor (with archmage mythic). Since the other stuff from magus don't interest me (or I won't get anyway), the SA on top is better.
Big issue with magus, IMO, especially if you go the magic part, is how you just stop having touch spell quickly and how limited they are. Best one is probably shocking grasp, but it's magic spellbook level 1 with a max of 5d6. Not only most demons are immune to electricity so you need to convert the element or make it bypass immunities (which cost a dip in sorcerer or a mythic feat), but 5d6 is low. You get your last touch spell as magus at caster level 3. You get more afterward but they are negative level, debuff and other stuff like that (not only a ton of enemies are immune to it, you have poor DC for them but they are also very situational against enemies). Meanwhile, rays get much farther, and hellfire ray (15d6) is certainly a lot better than your 5d6, or even force punch at 10d4. In that aspect, an eldritch archer is going to have a better time since they use ranged touch spell and those are bountiful and powerful (with much gear to enhance them).
Ironically, that's why SS is often considered the best magus, you don't actually use touch spells. You use the magic for buffs, the various passive (like int AC) and the arcane pool. And you just 2hand your weapon instead of using the offhand spell that is unique to magus.
This is true for any multiclass, pure, prestige and whatever that want to gish melee martial and magic. Eventually, you just use the magic aspect for buffs. Damage is martial. I mean, you may use the touch spell early to mid game, they are still good then, but they lose steam real fast afterward.
In the Table top you can cheese more rests in the game if needed to get spells back but the corruption mechanic really hurts you in WoTR if you try that after every 2-3 fights.
Now if you get to late game and took abundant casting it is less of an issue. But outside of a few fights other classes just do it better and with less work.
If you want to play a magus that does not ware armour, that is what a sword saint is.
If you really must you should compare with a sorcerer that kills stuff with a piece of metal. So is a bardichie/heavy-pick wielding sage sorcerer stronger than a Magus? So I guess you either go 10xSS + 10xEK or rely on the Transformation spell (= Full BAB).
Personally I prefer a 5xWizard 5xLormaster 10xEK or 20xDivination-Wizard+Transformation-spell.
Edidt: Probably best melee sorcerer: 20xSylvan sorcerer with black horse. Use long-spear = simple weapon and rely on transformation; Abyssal for second bloodline. Compare with Arcane rider??
you don't need to use touchspells or anything at all to make the class work. you can just hit stuff it only matter for boss fights you have like 20 or something how many turns do you guys need to kill a boss to even consider to run out?
why is the ARCANE WEAPON just ignored here.
i really have to question if you guys here actually played this game...
does a magus without spells do as much as a 2HF no... but what does?
Having looked at the arcane rider I think I prefer it to the sylvan sorcerer! The only decision is whether to go Str+long-spear or Int+Bardichie. Str does more damage while Int is more accurate.
And you pay for it by not being a caster while it's on. You know what else have full BAB and can't cast spell ? Fighters. And many other martials classes.
So please, don't pick transformation and think it can make you a good martial. It won't. It's bad. Like real bad. It's only "OK" if you make a terrible build with tons of strength and dex on a sorc and very early game. Like first 2-3level. ironically, the earliest you can get transformation is lvl 12 for a sorc (unless scroll if they exist), and at this point it's tragically bad.
Yes arcane rider is a better gish. Although, if you want to use a mount and charge at people with a spear, pick cavalier, gendarme most likely. Better charge, more feat, order, banner, challenge....
If you don't want a mount, then take order of the pike. Dip 1 in sohei if you want for 1extra attack per turn (thanks to weapon training + furry of blows) and wisdom to AC for free.
Then get a divine and an arcane caster in your party to cover most buffs. Which you should have anyway.
sorcerer +10/+5
sorcerer with transformation +20/+15/+10/+5
So two extra attacks one at +10 and another at +5. That is not trash.
For melee full caster either take 10EK levels or rely on transformation.
A magnus would get one extra attack at +5. Not so good but certainly situationally useful.
edit ref
Magnus trades spell levels 7-9 for increased BAB, more HP per level, more Fort per level, and things like being able to cast while wearing armor.
Both sorcerers, wizards, and the magnus have quirks that only they can do. Like the Manus Arcana is only them, so if you wanted some particular, such as the Wand Master, that's unique to them. Or the Sorcerer has that bloodline arcana.
Anyway, it really just depends on what you want to do with your character and how much certain aspects of the game matter. A lot of viability boils down to personal playstyle.
*smirk*
And besides that, why even bother with spell combat when there are so many quicken rods in the game? Run your quickened touch attack through your greataxe or greatsword and then full attack with your max AB. Even quickcast a hellfire ray or whatever else before or after you attack.
Full BAB, 5 spell levels, and spontaneous casting. Instead of an ability that debuffs AB to let you cast one spell as part of a full attack but only with a free hand, it just gives you quickcasts X/day you could use to cast something during your round
Comparing Magus to something like Bloodrager makes me really consider how badly designed the based class was. Bloodrager get full BAB, bloodline powers, spontaneous arcane casting, rage, and being able to cast while raging. It doesn't get the arcane weapon or spell recall, but I can't recall ever needing spell recall. Arcane weapon is good though I could do without it, especially when running TTT which fixes the illegal enhancement bonus stacking. I would have traded spell recall or the arcane blade at any time for full BAB. I'd even have traded off the arcane pool in general for full BAB.
I had a lot of fun playing Duskblades in 3.5, the spontaneous casting predecessor of magus. Magus done as close to right as you could get it was the Duskblade
https://srd.dndtools.org/srd/classes/basePhb2/duskblade.html
You can also use hellfire ray with spell combat for a normal magus as well. Spell combat can be used with all magus spells. Touch spells are only the limit for Spellstrike. You could hellfire ray into a full attack with spell combat. Archer just has a version of Spellstrike.
With a critical hit using the range from a weapon like scimitar or ECB with frigid touch is quite nice to basic turn off an enemy martial for a minute.
Spell slot issue can be helped by completely normal spell if you go down the trickster line as you can turn all your level 1 spells into cantrips while using the level 1 and 2 spell slots mostly for Frigid touch, mirror image, and whatever buffs you need prepared from spell levels 2-3.
As far as DC for debuffs and such is concerned, that will depend on how you distribute attributes and what feats you take. A caster magus is possible. A magus with the same int as a wizard will do just as good as that wizard. But at that point it would be better to just go with one of the full caster classes unless you like the gimmick.
Magus is an extremely versatile class. Way more than any class in the game. It's just that the way the game sets you up to improve your stats and such that the base mechanic of the class, which is based on low level magic spells lags behind. The main complaint from people with these things mostly is: "but I can get what Magus does from XYZ". And that's precisely my point. Imagine the WotR campaign didn't have XYZ and you were more reliant on your actual class.