Phantasmal Mage & Arcanist advice

[pete3great]

Anyone have any? I'm thinking of playing a phantasmal mage (on core), but I'm not sure on some details as I've never played an arcanist. Though I will say I have played an arcane enforcer, and know that arcane reservoir is borked in some way until you get the appropriate mythic ability (sometimes I would rest and end up with fewer points in my reservoir than before I rested, so that was weird).

In another thread I asked if all the weird bugginess surrounding shadow spells and their interactions/bonuses had been fixed and was told they had, though I didn't ask how resistances apply (if i cast shadow evocation, controlled fireball against a demon, does its fire resistance apply, for example).

I'm thinking of a.) making the build as BAB-less as possible--I might not take pbs/precise shot at all. But that's up for debate. My test builds always end up with several unused feat slots that get used for extra reservoir anyway.

b.) Lich? I'm feeling lich, with expanded arsenal necromancy.

c.) how many critters are straight up immune? is it more or less than, say, are immune to precise strike? If it's just the same stuff that's immune to most enchantment spells (undead, swarms, and the like) then it's no big deal, but I've heard people complain about this when it comes to illusion.

d.) Here's my own tip: The game is unclear about exactly how arcanist's spell casting and spell choice work. In my mind, the game makes charisma and intelligence co-equal. I had to go read the SRD documents to understand what was going on. Intelligence is your primary casting stat. It works exactly like wisdom for a cleric, or charisma for a sorcerer. Charisma is mostly for your arcane exploits; depending on your build, it doesn't need to be particularly high. Do I understand this right?

Anyway, thanks.

[pete3great]

Originally posted by John Doe:

. . .

I clipped that for length but I did read it. I've also done some testing, though I haven't actually played the phantasmal mage yet, but I did make one in Inevitable Excess on core, and kit it out. I also, as a control of sorts, made a similarly built but subtley different illusion build to compare and contrast (gnome phantasmal mage versus elven shadowcaster). This is going to be long, so excuse me if I skip some vital info like the specifics of the builds.

Here are some conclusions.

Gnome Phantasmal Mage:

Pros: The normal flexibility of the arcanist gets even more flexible with shadow conjuration/evocation.
Your CL for your shadow spells will be ridiculous (mage armor that lasts for days if you extend/enduring spell it).
Gnome. Lol.

Cons: CL is useless you're going for an illusion buff build. Which isn't the worst, but a long way from the best.
Your spell DC is mediocre at best.
Gnome. Yuck.
Imma be honest, I don't think arcane exploits are all that useful. Even worse with a phatasmal mage, who loses magical supremacy and potent spells (iirc). And, honestly, how often are you empowering/bolstering/etc an illusion spell?

Mythic Path: I still think it meshes better with lich than azata. The flexibility is yet more flexible. Enemies have high will and fortitude saves but low reflex saves? Hit them with a banshee blast instead of weird or what have you. And, again, if you go the illusion buffer path, CL becomes a factor again. With lich, the empowering/bolstering starts to work with shadow spells in an interesting way with eclipse chill (I imagine. Didn't get to test it.) Combined spell book means getting weird/shades at much lower levels.

With the shadowcaster, I went Azata instead:

Elven Shadowcaster:

Pros: Elf + feats + profane intelligence + buffs/items = High spell DC and high spell penetration easily achievable.
Because the original idea was to do as little aiming as possible, the shadowcaster, despite losing a bunch of free wizard feats, still ends up with plenty to spare.
Not a gnome. :)
Enchantment and Illusion spells for days. You'll can have an entire spellbook devoted to variations of mind fog.

Cons: Oh, as an elven Azata wizard, you have two schools that compliment each other like peanut butter and jelly, enchantment and illusion. You are also cripplingly specialized. Unlike the phantasmal mage, there's less whipping out a banshee blast when you need to hit a different save. I mean you can, but it might not be as effective (but you're an Azata. Does it really matter? Uhg).
Shadow spells don't play as well when metamagic feats don't apply to them.
Not a gnome. :(
Shadow summon is useless by all accounts. I didn't play with it enough to find out. I genuinely think losing the feats is worth profane intelligence even if the shadow summon isn't.

On paper, I think the elven shadowcaster wins. Curious to see how they would actually play verses each other, though. That's where the real answer lies.

[FunkyMonkey]

How about going Lich with your Shadowcaster? I fail to see how Azata could ever be better for full caster than Lich? No merged spellbook for Azata and I believe Azata uses Charisma as their spell casting stat, I could be wrong about this, though. For the Lich, it's only upsides.

[revan1229]

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

How about going Lich with your Shadowcaster? I fail to see how Azata could ever be better for full caster than Lich? No merged spellbook for Azata and I believe Azata uses Charisma as their spell casting stat, I could be wrong about this, though. For the Lich, it's only upsides.

Azata is generally a superior DC caster by virtue of getting Favourable Magic at MR4, Songs of Steel, and the Robe of Mephistopheles. And they have the ability to refresh class resources, meaning Shadowcaster can have multiple Shadows out, and they can use Foretell more (if you've gone Divination). Elemental Specialist and Spell Master are the best Wizard archetypes for Lich, imo. ES can exploit Eclipse Chill and Spell Master is all about CL and can refresh their 10th level spells.

[TOLYAN JIGAN]

Originally posted by John Doe:

Lich has Corrupt Magic - it will turn any encounters into a walking tour when you get this spell.

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by John Doe:

Azata on the other hand, has favorable magic, zippy magic and the spell Ode to Miraculous Magic, they are just better for everything, whether it's attack spells or DC spells, regardless which school of magic/class you choose.

All unmerged mythic spells are based on your mythic level, Azata is the same, they are not limited by Charisma.

Fair points in favor of Azata. I was thinking of the spells that require saves or attack rolls on the casting stat issue and it doesn't matter if you only use buffs from Azata list. I've only done one Azata playthrough and it left a bad taste in my mouth after in the end game I encountered Mephistopheles. After trying to deal with that for a while I just abandoned the run and never looked back.

[pete3great]

I think the ultimate problem with any illusion heavy build is the nagging feeling you could just let Nenio do it and play something else.

[revan1229]

Originally posted by pete3great:

I think the ultimate problem with any illusion heavy build is the nagging feeling you could just let Nenio do it and play something else.

Nenio will be vastly inferior to a KC Illusion caster. Her kit offers essentially no benefits for it. She is better as an Enchantment caster.