Queen Galfrey -the Lawfull Evil Queen (opinion)

[Abuzigahl]

Many people complain about the queen especially in the end of act 3 but even before that you see the signs. She is well written but damn is she fanatic to a fault, greedy and insecure. She is in my opinion close to Lawfull Evil.

She lives that long not because she is nice or good but for power.
She gives you a title to use you and she uses you excesisvely. The way, as i see it, she is loosing politcal power and uses us to strengthen her postion and gain back power. If she was in a better position we would NEVER be the commander.

I think in this case we would be in a cell rotting away because we insluted her godess. She uses the name of the godess for gains politcal and economic wise.

All in all, she is a greed corpo overlord that dont want to part with her power or position. Boby in sexy if you will. Well written, yes, but a good person ? Hell nah...

She makes some decisions that are clearly lawfull evil and some even chaotic evil.
She is simply another kind of monster. I like her charcter story wise but i personal hate such people with passion. Be honest if you are evil, stop sugar coating it.

She sends us away with NO PLAN of return for us. She never intend us for return and she want to take away what you have and will force you to do it even or especially if it kills you. Thats plain chaotic and evil, she has now power and we are in the way.
"By the way i will take all your work put a "Galfrey did it, praise GALFREY" and banish you .... uhh... SEND you into hell to .... uhhh ... do good.... please go die and stop asking."

Regill has more moral and ethics than she does and our little Overlord would cook us alive if we even show the slightest tiny bit of corruption. To be honest as an evil player i would love to kick her into hell with the words
"How about you show me that you are a champion/hero of what ever godess you believe in"
but sadly you cant.

I think people need to make diffrence between i hate her and she is badly written. She is a well written charcter but i hate her as a lawfull good paladin and wish i could smite her.

[Bumc]

Owlcat alignment chart is quite a bit off from canonical dnd/pathfinder representation and Queen Galfrey is just the tip of the iceberg.

But yeah, "actually she's lawful evil" tracks well.

[Elizabello]

Considering that nobody knows where Commanders mythical powers come from, and she knows they dont come from Iomedae, she is rigthfully concerned. Some of the mythical paths lead to a way way worse situation for Golarian then it was with Worldwound around.
You can be a Swarm that walks, Lich, Demon, Devil, Trickster changing the landscape for worse. You can also be an Aeon who changes the past on a whim. I say she did the right thing! And her biggest mistake was appointing the main character a Commander of the crusade.

[ChompyRiley]

TL;DR - Galfrey is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ exhausted, dealing with a century of constant warfare and intrigue. she's human.

Oh boy. You're either trolling or ignorant. Let's go through your points one by one.

She never chose to live this long. It was a request from her church and goddess to extend her life so that she could see Mendev through the Crusades. Nobody expected them to last over a century.

Galfrey openly admits that she gave you the title to formalize what people were already saying and starting to do. She was going along with it because to do otherwise would split the crusade at a vulnerable time.

She's never used her goddesses name for political or economic gains. Galfrey is *barely* in the game unless you go through the effort to keep her around.

The poor woman has spent a century plus literally at war with the forces of hell AND dealing with actual greedy power-hungry nobles. She's only human, she makes mistakes. Are they bad mistakes? Well yes. She admits that she's jealous of us and our success. But if you lead the crusade well, you keep your title and position to come back to.

As for 'no plan of return', the Inheritor mentions knowing his way around planar travel. Besides, what other choice did anyone have? The MC is the only one with mythic powers and is their best bet to find the source of the Literally Mythic Demons that have started swarming through the world-wound. You're her only hope.

Regil has ethics, but not morality. He's EXTREMELY pragmatic, both towards himself and others. More lawful neutral than actually evil. Just like Seelah's more Chaotic than Lawful. And Daeran is more CN than NE. etc.

I can go into more detail, but I doubt you'll read even a quarter of what I've written.

Originally posted by Elizabello:

Considering that nobody knows where Commanders mythical powers come from, and she knows they dont come from Iomedae, she is rigthfully concerned. Some of the mythical paths lead to a way way worse situation for Golarian then it was with Worldwound around.
You can be a Swarm that walks, Lich, Demon, Devil, Trickster changing the landscape for worse. You can also be an Aeon who changes the past on a whim. I say she did the right thing! And her biggest mistake was appointing the main character a Commander of the crusade.

A full 4/9 of the mythic paths are bad news for Golarion: Demon, Devil, Lich, Swarm.

Trickster isn't OUTRIGHT bad, but it can still be horrifying to witness all the chaos you bring. Dealing with your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ as Trickster reverses the Bleaching on Regil even.

Aeon actually isn't so bad. The whole timeline ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is... mmm... well nobody really knows. Seriously, if you go True Aeon you basically erase yourself from existence to make sure that the world-wound never forms in the first place. It's a MAJOR departure from the other paths to such an extent that it's hard to describe without going into way more detail. Though you can still romance her as an Aeon, bizarrely.

Azata, Legend, and Angel are the only outright positive outcomes, with Azata even restoring the blighted lands.

"But Riley, aren't there ten mythic paths?" No, there's only 9 mythic paths, and one badly written trashfire called 'Gold Dragon'.

[Abuzigahl]

Add hominem is not an argument but we consider this nerve touched , i guess.

The Queen does bad stuff to us and others. That others do also bad stuff but this does not absolve her. I never said she is the only "evil" one on our side. We have a bunch of lunatics, including us. So that poor woman is ready to kill because she suffered... this make the action (killing) right ? It explains it but it is not justified, its bad and evil. Done.

And youre string of words are mostly : add hominem, strawman and a lot of assumptions about me. Not nice, not cool but hey " but I doubt you'll read even a quarter of what I've written." Please leave that out if you disagree, fine but i brought points up why she is not lawfull good or neutral and on the lawfull evil side.

She is well written because we can see the reasons but it does not make her a good person or makes it right. She is evil, so we are (depending how you play) and many, many others. Example Hanibal, well written but nobody would assume it is okey what he does, we cans see why and understand partly what is going on but it is not okay, its evil, wrong, etc.

The point with the Inheritor is, he says it in a way that can be read that this was not talked about before hand (dear sister blablah stop accusing MC blah blah, shows this also). They could have talked but also not.

Also "her only hope" ..... you should revisit that dialog. Thats not from her its from the inherator, the angel says this and she is somewhat pissed about that and about that damn cloth.

I agree many people are maniacs and lunatics and many, many other do bad stuff and she is in a bad position but she is also a damn evil lunatic.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by ChompyRiley:

TL;DR - Galfrey is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ exhausted, dealing with a century of constant warfare and intrigue. she's human.

Oh boy. You're either trolling or ignorant. Let's go through your points one by one.

She never chose to live this long. It was a request from her church and goddess to extend her life so that she could see Mendev through the Crusades. Nobody expected them to last over a century.

Galfrey openly admits that she gave you the title to formalize what people were already saying and starting to do. She was going along with it because to do otherwise would split the crusade at a vulnerable time.

She's never used her goddesses name for political or economic gains. Galfrey is *barely* in the game unless you go through the effort to keep her around.

The poor woman has spent a century plus literally at war with the forces of hell AND dealing with actual greedy power-hungry nobles. She's only human, she makes mistakes. Are they bad mistakes? Well yes. She admits that she's jealous of us and our success. But if you lead the crusade well, you keep your title and position to come back to.

As for 'no plan of return', the Inheritor mentions knowing his way around planar travel. Besides, what other choice did anyone have? The MC is the only one with mythic powers and is their best bet to find the source of the Literally Mythic Demons that have started swarming through the world-wound. You're her only hope.

Regil has ethics, but not morality. He's EXTREMELY pragmatic, both towards himself and others. More lawful neutral than actually evil. Just like Seelah's more Chaotic than Lawful. And Daeran is more CN than NE. etc.

I can go into more detail, but I doubt you'll read even a quarter of what I've written.

Originally posted by Elizabello:

Considering that nobody knows where Commanders mythical powers come from, and she knows they dont come from Iomedae, she is rigthfully concerned. Some of the mythical paths lead to a way way worse situation for Golarian then it was with Worldwound around.
You can be a Swarm that walks, Lich, Demon, Devil, Trickster changing the landscape for worse. You can also be an Aeon who changes the past on a whim. I say she did the right thing! And her biggest mistake was appointing the main character a Commander of the crusade.

A full 4/9 of the mythic paths are bad news for Golarion: Demon, Devil, Lich, Swarm.

Trickster isn't OUTRIGHT bad, but it can still be horrifying to witness all the chaos you bring. Dealing with your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ as Trickster reverses the Bleaching on Regil even.

Aeon actually isn't so bad. The whole timeline ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is... mmm... well nobody really knows. Seriously, if you go True Aeon you basically erase yourself from existence to make sure that the world-wound never forms in the first place. It's a MAJOR departure from the other paths to such an extent that it's hard to describe without going into way more detail. Though you can still romance her as an Aeon, bizarrely.

Azata, Legend, and Angel are the only outright positive outcomes, with Azata even restoring the blighted lands.

"But Riley, aren't there ten mythic paths?" No, there's only 9 mythic paths, and one badly written trashfire called 'Gold Dragon'.

War with the Abyss and blame owlcat for having everyone turn on my lich who been using the corpses of the fallen to save lives.
I swear the living are ungrateful selfrightious jerks.
Ow your are entirely correct i just felt like complaining.
It is war with the abyss tho.
I know it looks the same but we are being attacked be demons not devils.

[Schlumpsha]

Only a (un)dead Galfrey is a good Galfrey.

[BaTHoRy]

Originally posted by Abuzigahl:

Many people complain about the queen especially in the end of act 3 but even before that you see the signs. She is well written but damn is she fanatic to a fault, greedy and insecure. She is in my opinion close to Lawfull Evil.

She lives that long not because she is nice or good but for power.
She gives you a title to use you and she uses you excesisvely. The way, as i see it, she is loosing politcal power and uses us to strengthen her postion and gain back power. If she was in a better position we would NEVER be the commander.

I think in this case we would be in a cell rotting away because we insluted her godess. She uses the name of the godess for gains politcal and economic wise.

All in all, she is a greed corpo overlord that dont want to part with her power or position. Boby in sexy if you will. Well written, yes, but a good person ? Hell nah...

She makes some decisions that are clearly lawfull evil and some even chaotic evil.
She is simply another kind of monster. I like her charcter story wise but i personal hate such people with passion. Be honest if you are evil, stop sugar coating it.

She sends us away with NO PLAN of return for us. She never intend us for return and she want to take away what you have and will force you to do it even or especially if it kills you. Thats plain chaotic and evil, she has now power and we are in the way.
"By the way i will take all your work put a "Galfrey did it, praise GALFREY" and banish you .... uhh... SEND you into hell to .... uhhh ... do good.... please go die and stop asking."

Regill has more moral and ethics than she does and our little Overlord would cook us alive if we even show the slightest tiny bit of corruption. To be honest as an evil player i would love to kick her into hell with the words
"How about you show me that you are a champion/hero of what ever godess you believe in"
but sadly you cant.

I think people need to make diffrence between i hate her and she is badly written. She is a well written charcter but i hate her as a lawfull good paladin and wish i could smite her.

She deserves everything I did to her in IZ

[ChompyRiley]

Wow. Lots of edgelords today.

[Drake]

She's as far from evil as camelia is as far from good.

The only real questionable choice is sending the commander into the abyss. That's it. Not being competent doesn't mean being evil.

If she really was lawful evil, she wouldn't do stuff like preventing you to use the suicide swarm plan to capture drezen.

Lawful evil means doing it every time. Regill is lawful evil, he doesn't care about the life of others, nor his men as long as it gets the job done, going as far as getting the commander in from of a succubus, risking his life just to confirm if he is trustworthy.
Galfrey is far from regill mindset.

People are way too rigid with alignments.

[dataseer21]

Personally I find it difficult to decide if someone is lawful evil bases off of a few lines. Maybe I just didn't put a lot of thought in it. I guess though one of the few things that makes me think she might be is that she is completely fine with you using pretty much any means necessary to finish off the demons. I don't know if swarm is the exception I haven't done it. Personally I don't like the alignment system because there is so much theorizing about it.

I remember being in a dnd game and my character was fine for most of the game but I did one evil thing and the other players metagamed and jumped down my throat. They wanted my official alignment changed because of one action. Save a million babies, oh you are good. Kill one baby, now you are evil. I think there is a line in the game that I guess that makes evil stronger than good at least in people's eyes. It is one of the conversations. I don't remember if regill, seelah, or sosiel says it.

[pete3great]

Originally posted by Drake:

Not being competent doesn't mean being evil.

I disagree with this entirely. You will find that incompetence and evil go hand in hand. That said, it is a fantasy game, and I only come here for just enough reality to contrast the fantasy. In other words, I'm not too worried about it. No one's writing home about WotR's "amazing story." I just want to throw builds against monsters.

[Drake]

Originally posted by pete3great:

Originally posted by Drake:

Not being competent doesn't mean being evil.

I disagree with this entirely. You will find that incompetence and evil go hand in hand. That said, it is a fantasy game, and I only come here for just enough reality to contrast the fantasy. In other words, I'm not too worried about it. No one's writing home about WotR's "amazing story." I just want to throw builds against monsters.

Yeah, very competent and smart psychopaths are good people, that's well known... while good honest but not bright people are bad guys...

Tedd Bundy was a very competent guy.

[ChompyRiley]

Originally posted by pete3great:

Originally posted by Drake:

Not being competent doesn't mean being evil.

I disagree with this entirely. You will find that incompetence and evil go hand in hand. That said, it is a fantasy game, and I only come here for just enough reality to contrast the fantasy. In other words, I'm not too worried about it. No one's writing home about WotR's "amazing story." I just want to throw builds against monsters.

Being incompetent but well-meaning is also a thing. You don't have to be a genius to be good at something, and being brilliant doesn't make you a good person.

Originally posted by dataseer21:

Personally I find it difficult to decide if someone is lawful evil bases off of a few lines. Maybe I just didn't put a lot of thought in it. I guess though one of the few things that makes me think she might be is that she is completely fine with you using pretty much any means necessary to finish off the demons. I don't know if swarm is the exception I haven't done it. Personally I don't like the alignment system because there is so much theorizing about it.

I remember being in a dnd game and my character was fine for most of the game but I did one evil thing and the other players metagamed and jumped down my throat. They wanted my official alignment changed because of one action. Save a million babies, oh you are good. Kill one baby, now you are evil. I think there is a line in the game that I guess that makes evil stronger than good at least in people's eyes. It is one of the conversations. I don't remember if regill, seelah, or sosiel says it.

I forget the exact circumstances, but it goes thus:

MC: "Why do you hate Hellknights so much?"

Sosiel: "The fact that we even tolerate them is a disgrace to the entire crusade movement. Cruel tormentors who are indifferent to the suffering of others, or who perhaps even enjoy it. What are they doing on our side? Why do we let them justify all these atrocities by participating in the crusades?"

Regill: "Perhaps it's because your side wants to win battles - at least some of the time."

Sosiel: *Sosiel presses his lips, vexed.* "Yes, and that is an even bigger disgrace. Aren't the forces of good inherently strong enough to win? Can evil really only be overcome by making a deal with another evil?"

Regill: "Don't bring your metaphysics into this. Stop blaming your own incompetence on cosmic forces. The side of good isn't weak, it's you."

Daeran: "This is quite a debate! My heart is with you, Sosiel. But I'd bet my money on Regill."

[pete3great]

Originally posted by Drake:

Yeah, very competent and smart psychopaths are good people, that's well known... while good honest but not bright people are bad guys...

Tedd Bundy was a very competent guy.

Not what I said, but, as I said about coming to fantasy games to escape reality, I come to these forums to talk about games, not have a philosophical debate. I'll save that for the ethics classes I teach.

[ChompyRiley]

Originally posted by pete3great:

Originally posted by Drake:

Yeah, very competent and smart psychopaths are good people, that's well known... while good honest but not bright people are bad guys...

Tedd Bundy was a very competent guy.

Not what I said, but, as I said about coming to fantasy games to escape reality, I come to these forums to talk about games, not have a philosophical debate. I'll save that for the ethics classes I teach.

Look out! We got an ethics professor over here!