Oracle vs. Sorcerer

[ChompyRiley]

On the one hand, I do like being able to snip Daeran out of the party. I love him to bits, but he can get a little wearying at times. I do love him though. Plus, Oracle is just fantastic for anything. Melee? Pure caster? Buffs? Debuffs? Damage? And it synergizes so well with Angel it's not even funny.

But I can't seem to help coming back to sorcerer. Seeker sorcerer with the elemental fire bloodline. Extra feats, conversion of elemental damage. There's just so much incredibly good stuff. Plus I like blasting the ♥♥♥♥ out of enemies AND doing good battlefield control. Sure, like, enchantment and conjuration can do it better. Pit spells 'n' ♥♥♥♥. but I still like blastin'.

I dunno, am I missing something? Is one better than the other? Is there something fun about Oracle-Angel that i'm missing that Sorcerer-Angel can't do just as well?

[Drake]

For this campaign, I would say oracle, especially if you go angel.

But keep daeran. The only thing better than an oracle is two oracles.

[Schlumpsha]

I like Oracle due to its curses with their respective disadvantages and some advantagtes. Makes the character more interesting to roleplay imho. Sorcerer is interesting because Bloodlines. But frankly I prefer the Bloodrager's over the Sorcerer's for that. Then again, for arcane caster I usually go Witch anyway. So I have always room for both a Bloodrager and an Oracle in my party.

[Mauman]

Depends.

In general? Oracle (seeker or dual-curse are the best ones)

Angel? Oh boy howdy Oracle

Lich? Sorcerer (sylvan, cross-blooded, or geomancer)

Side note - if you're going blasty blasty with Oracle, a dip in geomancer is WELL worth it. Probably OP really. Geomancy really shouldn't work with other spell books. But it does. And it's great. (also, damage bloodline, or arcane bloodline, or both with a mythic ability). All great.

Actually, thinking about it, I'd almost say that geomancer has completely eclipsed cross-blooded now that doubling up on dragon bloodlines is no longer a thing.

edit - as an aside, because of how mysteries work and pretty much allow you to make your character as you see fit, Oracle is one of those classes that you can totally double up on. Or even triple on if you wanted to.

[Amormaliar]

Merged spellbook on Oracle-Angel better than anything that Sorcerer could dream about, it’s not even a comparison tbh

[ChompyRiley]

Originally posted by Mauman:

Depends.

In general? Oracle (seeker or dual-curse are the best ones)

Angel? Oh boy howdy Oracle

Lich? Sorcerer (sylvan, cross-blooded, or geomancer)

Side note - if you're going blasty blasty with Oracle, a dip in geomancer is WELL worth it. Probably OP really. Geomancy really shouldn't work with other spell books. But it does. And it's great. (also, damage bloodline, or arcane bloodline, or both with a mythic ability). All great.

Actually, thinking about it, I'd almost say that geomancer has completely eclipsed cross-blooded now that doubling up on dragon bloodlines is no longer a thing.

edit - as an aside, because of how mysteries work and pretty much allow you to make your character as you see fit, Oracle is one of those classes that you can totally double up on. Or even triple on if you wanted to.

I mean, I know bolt of justice is just ducky, but besides the mythic spells, is oracle really any good at blastin'?

[Drake]

Hellfire ray is always an option, I also like just spamming harm, melee touch tanky caster is always handy.
But really a battle oracle with a big axe buffed to oblivion is really the best way to play it imo.

[Mauman]

Originally posted by ChompyRiley:

Originally posted by Mauman:

Depends.

In general? Oracle (seeker or dual-curse are the best ones)

Angel? Oh boy howdy Oracle

Lich? Sorcerer (sylvan, cross-blooded, or geomancer)

Side note - if you're going blasty blasty with Oracle, a dip in geomancer is WELL worth it. Probably OP really. Geomancy really shouldn't work with other spell books. But it does. And it's great. (also, damage bloodline, or arcane bloodline, or both with a mythic ability). All great.

Actually, thinking about it, I'd almost say that geomancer has completely eclipsed cross-blooded now that doubling up on dragon bloodlines is no longer a thing.

edit - as an aside, because of how mysteries work and pretty much allow you to make your character as you see fit, Oracle is one of those classes that you can totally double up on. Or even triple on if you wanted to.

I mean, I know bolt of justice is just ducky, but besides the mythic spells, is oracle really any good at blastin'?

Yes, as the "add spells to list" items work with Oracle as well as Sorcerer. The fire ring and lighting bracers in particular will give you a TON of options.

Oracle also comes with some decent spells as well. Even before factoring in mysteries. Hell, even curses can help here.

You can also go into Loremaster as well if there's a particular spell(s) you really want.

[ChompyRiley]

Originally posted by Mauman:

Originally posted by ChompyRiley:

I mean, I know bolt of justice is just ducky, but besides the mythic spells, is oracle really any good at blastin'?

Yes, as the "add spells to list" items work with Oracle as well as Sorcerer. The fire ring and lighting bracers in particular will give you a TON of options.

Oracle also comes with some decent spells as well. Even before factoring in mysteries. Hell, even curses can help here.

You can also go into Loremaster as well if there's a particular spell(s) you really want.

So how would you build a blast-caster oracle then? I know it's not really optimal, but I really really enjoy the idea of raining down holy fire upon my foes. Sorcerer is OKAY for that, but at the same time, it's not really the same.

[Deo]

Sorcerer = Lich. Oracle = Angel.

The only reason to play caster with Angel, is to merge spellbooks (Oracle, Shaman, Druid, Cleric), for crazy high caster level and damage of spell resistance ignoring Bolt/Storm of Justice. Non-caster martial Angel is pretty meh, and Trickster in all ways superior to him.

[Mauman]

Originally posted by ChompyRiley:

Originally posted by Mauman:

Yes, as the "add spells to list" items work with Oracle as well as Sorcerer. The fire ring and lighting bracers in particular will give you a TON of options.

Oracle also comes with some decent spells as well. Even before factoring in mysteries. Hell, even curses can help here.

You can also go into Loremaster as well if there's a particular spell(s) you really want.

So how would you build a blast-caster oracle then? I know it's not really optimal, but I really really enjoy the idea of raining down holy fire upon my foes. Sorcerer is OKAY for that, but at the same time, it's not really the same.

Is this angel or non-angel? Important because that changes what feats I'd pick up (for instance, spell penetration is less important for angel, but absolutely needed for non-angel)

edit - I mean, your posts make me think you are going Angel, but I'd hate to assume.

[ChompyRiley]

Originally posted by Mauman:

Originally posted by ChompyRiley:

So how would you build a blast-caster oracle then? I know it's not really optimal, but I really really enjoy the idea of raining down holy fire upon my foes. Sorcerer is OKAY for that, but at the same time, it's not really the same.

Is this angel or non-angel? Important because that changes what feats I'd pick up (for instance, spell penetration is less important for angel, but absolutely needed for non-angel)

edit - I mean, your posts make me think you are going Angel, but I'd hate to assume.

Well, I was planning on Angel. Or maybe using a Mod (shocking i know) to let sorcerer merge as well. I just wanted to go pure caster Oracle-Angel because I like the idea of raining holy fire down upon my foes, rather than just 'normal' fire. And honestly Oracle is great for that. I'm planning to roleplay an oracle of The Prismatic Ray (Desna Primarily). Because it amuses me to imagine Desna mocking Iomedae and being like. "Look at this. power of the angels and it's all coming from my sweet little boy there. neener neener neener."

[ChompyRiley]

look don't judge me, I really like exploding things with fire and brimstone. maximum destruction in God's Holy Name.

[Mauman]

Originally posted by ChompyRiley:

look don't judge me, I really like exploding things with fire and brimstone. maximum destruction in God's Holy Name.

I'm not judging you at all.

My current playthrough is a human Wildland shaman. Toybox makes the game more fun.

Anyways, I still think Oracle is a stronger class than Sorc for angel even if you could merge sorc.

Here's something I'd go for - a build that's designed to be a fighter early on (when magic suuuuuucccks) but also allows you to abuse grease when grease is still overpowered.

The build then transitions into a gish build and you can continue as a gish or go completely into magic.

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969209783/screenshot/2483252478646036081/

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969209783/screenshot/2483252478646035900/

I'm sure this could be more optimized, and if you're ok with respeccing then you could probably get rid of some of the earlier stuff (like power attack), but this build is designed to be effective from level 1.

some details to point out - background doesn't matter much. Pickpocket for initiative or lumberjack if you want to do fighting long term (grave singer)

Curse - powerless prophecy. Your horse completely negates the early problems with that, the initiative bonus at level 5 is extremely nice, and you can eventually use freedom of movement or the boots of free reign to completely negate the problem (and fixing the metamagic issue).

animal companion - as mentioned, horse. Yeah it's less effective at higher levels but mounted combat at low levels is stupidly good. At higher levels your animal companion is just a glorified meat shield anyways. Just stack AC as much as possible and you should be good.

Pick up geomancer at level 2. Arcane bond (hare, more initiative), grease, mage armor for your horse, and a cool +2 dc to grease (You need spell focus for spell specialization anyways). Might as well take advantage of this when grease is at it's strongest. Geomancy is just a straight up damage increase at higher levels (up to +9d6) in most locations in the game. And yes, the holy damage conversion works with it so you don't have to worry about enemies resisting it after chapter 3.

Loremaster - pick up the spell battering blast. It's a lower level spell I personally like for when I'd rather not use any of my bolt spells. This will go far in effectiveness for blasting. Makes for an effective bonus spell when you get to the mythic point in which all of your lower level spells can be quickened for free. Also pick up shattered defenses. Order doesn't matter much.

For mythic, I'd focus early on getting all the abundant spellcastings, then favored metamagic bolstered and empowered. There's two greater maximize metamagic rods in the game. One even does both empowered and maximize at the same times. This allows you to have both your 9th and 8th level storm spells to be simultaneously bolstered, empowered, and maximized. Not much is going to survive that :P

After that, it's all up to you.

[ChompyRiley]

Mauman, I appreciate the advice. I'll look into using your build somewhat, but I really prefer going pure caster. Gish builds are fine, but I prefer to be either (mostly) pure martial, like a fighter, paladin, or ranger, or a pure caster, like a cleric, sorcerer, or shaman/witch

[Mauman]

Originally posted by ChompyRiley:

Mauman, I appreciate the advice. I'll look into using your build somewhat, but I really prefer going pure caster. Gish builds are fine, but I prefer to be either (mostly) pure martial, like a fighter, paladin, or ranger, or a pure caster, like a cleric, sorcerer, or shaman/witch

This build will become a pure caster if you let it. It's just decent at melee combat early on when magic builds suck.

At least in my opinion :P

The early grease will let you be decent enough at magic CC at least.