Scroll DC + Savant

[Agent]

I've got like 500 hours in the game and I'm embarrassed to admit that I clearly don't understand the mechanics that I thought I understood. I currently have Nenio with 10 levels of Scroll Savant and 4 levels of Loremaster in this playthrough. I just cast Hold Monster against a demon twice. Once from memory, once from a scroll. The DC from the spell cast from memory looks correct to me. But I can't for the life of me understand the DC from the scroll.

Nenio is level 14 (10/4 SS/Lore). Currently 31 Int with buffs which is a +10 bonus. Kitsune Magic is +1 to enchantment DC. Has items giving another +4 equipped.

The DC when Nenio casts it from memory is 30. That makes sense to me (10 base + 10 Int + 5 spell level + 1 kitsune + 4 items).

So... what should the DC of this spell be when cast by Nenio from a scroll?

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

In theory should be the same depending on your level. at 5th level it uses your full int modifier to determine the DC and at 10th it uses your caster level.

Normally scrolls use the minimum required int and CL to cast the spell. IE if your casting hold person as a 2nd level spell, it would use 12 INT and CL 3 without the savant AT.

With it the CL and DC should be exactly the same as if you cast it from memory. If not then i'd chalk it up to a bug. Least i'm pretty sure that is how it works... based on what i am reading anyway.

[Deo]

Scroll DC goes as following: 10 + spell level + minimum stat modifier required to cast it (11 for 1st lvl spells, 12 for 2nd lvl spells, etc. etc.)

1st level: 11 DC
2nd level: 13 DC
3rd level: 14 DC
4th level: 16 DC
5th level: 17 DC
6th level: 19 DC
7th level: 20 DC
8th level: 22 DC
9th level: 23 DC

Scroll Savant circumvents that rule, so he using his Intelligence modifier, instead of the minimum modifier. So, for 5 level spell the DC will be 10 + 5 + 10 = 25 DC.

What it shows in the combat log? Spells casted from scrolls should not get the +dc from items and racial passives.

[pete3great]

Originally posted by Agent:

I've got like 500 hours in the game and I'm embarrassed to admit that I clearly don't understand the mechanics that I thought I understood.

It's a huge game with a lot of interacting mechanics. Don't beat yourself up. Part of the fun of this game, I think, is untangling it.

[mbradtke]

like deo alrdy said, it is probably because some bonuses dont apply to scrolls, scroll savant will increase the DC to match your INT attribute but beside that....

to be honest i dont get that part as well, why you dont get the other bonuses from feats and items as well, the problem is, the game is so big and there is so much stuff you can combine, it is hard to tell what is a bug and what is not... ive seen stuff like wizard's evocation spec or sorcerer bloodline dmg bonus work on stuff like staves or scrolls, meanwhile someone with a scorching ray staff can cast this spell and in case he has sneak attack levels he will add this damage to the rays, so who knows...

[Agent]

I'm getting 23 DC from the scroll and I can't make that work. I was expecting 25 (10 + 10 + 5) as confirmed by Deo.

[Agent]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3264132947

[Agent]

I know the most likely way to explain the discrepancy would be if Nenio's intelligence bonus was +8 and not +10 but it's +10. I'll scribe another one and see if it's the same.

[Agent]

Ok I can have two scrolls of Hold Monster in Nenio's belt and cast them on one of my dogs one after another and the DC of the save is different by 2. Shouldn't the DC of the scrolls cast by a Scroll Savant be the same? I'm casting them literally 2 seconds apart. My INT is not changing, there is no metamagic involved.

I'm lost.

[elbentzo]

Originally posted by Agent:

Ok I can have two scrolls of Hold Monster in Nenio's belt and cast them on one of my dogs one after another and the DC of the save is different by 2. Shouldn't the DC of the scrolls cast by a Scroll Savant be the same? I'm casting them literally 2 seconds apart. My INT is not changing, there is no metamagic involved.

I'm lost.

Hmm. Well, Hold Monster is a level 5 spell on the wizard spell list. On the bard/skald spell list it's just a level 4. Maybe one of the scrolls is considered a bard scroll for whatever reason (or some other spell caster)? Maybe one of the scrolls uses charisma as a spellcasting attribute? What's your charisma bonus? And your wisdom?

My bet is that one of the scrolls isn't calculated with the level or casting attribute you expect.

[mbradtke]

maybe it works like this:
i dont think you should get the spell lv to DC as base bonus as scroll savant but instead you get the INT bonus NOT both....
so a fireball scroll would be 10 +3 = 13 OR 10+ yourINTMod= if you have 10 = 20
then i GUESS you get bonuses you dont exspect,
so in your case 23 it would be: 10+10(INT)+ some bonuses from feats or items(some might be added, some not, for whatever reason)
for why it would change, either your INT value changed or some bonus was denied but if it is the same scroll and the same school, that is unlikely, maybe just a rnd bug

[Agent]

It has something to do with scribed scrolls vs found/bought scrolls. The DCs change depending on whether its one I buy or scribe. But I'm getting tired of trying to puzzle it out exactly so probably I'll chalk it up to Something Unexplainable for now.

Definitely has something to do with DC wonkiness from scribing though.

(The DC of a spell is consistently higher on a scroll that I scribe myself vs one I buy/find).