Official Unofficial Yaker Respect Thread

[ChompyRiley]

My boy Yaker the Hellknight deserves a lot more credit and screentime. This guy fought off a bunch of gargoyles, ran miles and miles, and swam across a river when he wasn't even sure he'd find anyone, to bring help to his brothers and sisters in arms. And then, without any rest or healing or time for recovery, he IMMEDIATELY runs back to his unit and, without any weapons or armor, proceeds to throw hands with powerful half-fiend gargoyle hunters and clerics. This hellknight is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ manly that he deserves his own theme music and a Scorsese-directed biopic.

[canuck250]

Makes me think about that scene in band of brothers where Speirs runs through the enemy occupied city to communicate with the other company then runs back.

[Fuinril]

Well. He got double salary for that. And only 100 whip lash for deserting (110 max)... Regil is way too kind

For a Hellknight he's underwhelming. Personnal initiative, lack of bravery, careless about the order's possession (he left his armor to swim).... Thinking is disobeying !

[pete3great]

Do you think he puts any flavoring on the boots he licks or do you think the Hellknights forbid condiments?

[ChompyRiley]

Originally posted by pete3great:

Do you think he puts any flavoring on the boots he licks or do you think the Hellknights forbid condiments?

Well, safety first unless the paralictor says otherwise. Always practice safe snacks, use condiments.

[Vertigo]

I think Yaker's situation is great because of the realism of the consequences. It was a great and daring move on his part, but it is incredibly reckless on the same hand. Had he failed, he would have been an unaccounted for body among the many dead in that area.

If a police office broke a law to obtain evidence, it would not be admissible in court. If your company learned that you were skipping work the day that you unexpectedly saved a child, they would have the right to fire you. There are stories of retail employees fighting off shoplifters only to get fired.

I think Regill was smart to reward him for his boldness while still making an example so that such recklessness does not become commonplace among the forces.

We could debate the rightness/fairness of that, but this scenario is a good case of "reality ensues."

[Janthis]

Regill and by extension the Hellknights are a good examples of the "Get things done at any cost, individuals don't matter" mentality. It can be effective, but it also makes it easy to slip into tyranny and oppression. Even if they won against the demons, such an army will often grab power or turn against the civilian population in the absence of external enemies.

[Vertigo]

Originally posted by Johnny_B_80:

Regill and by extension the Hellknights are a good examples of the "Get things done at any cost, individuals don't matter" mentality. It can be effective, but it also makes it easy to slip into tyranny and oppression. Even if they won against the demons, such an army will often grab power or turn against the civilian population in the absence of external enemies.

I don't know. I see them more like the military. You have to follow orders no matter how much sense they make (or don't). They are supposed to be a highly disciplined force.

I don't think they would take over just because. Regill (and his chapter) have numerous opportunities to challenge or usurp you, but they never do (unless you prove to be worse than the demons). While he has no problems making his thoughts known, he never tries to undermine your decisions (unlike a certain other advisor). He even calls out the queen for stripping you of your title, so he does not strike me as one that wants power for power's sake.

[Heinz Pepperoni]

Originally posted by Vertigo:

Originally posted by Johnny_B_80:

Regill and by extension the Hellknights are a good examples of the "Get things done at any cost, individuals don't matter" mentality. It can be effective, but it also makes it easy to slip into tyranny and oppression. Even if they won against the demons, such an army will often grab power or turn against the civilian population in the absence of external enemies.

I don't know. I see them more like the military. You have to follow orders no matter how much sense they make (or don't). They are supposed to be a highly disciplined force.

I don't think they would take over just because. Regill (and his chapter) have numerous opportunities to challenge or usurp you, but they never do (unless you prove to be worse than the demons). While he has no problems making his thoughts known, he never tries to undermine your decisions (unlike a certain other advisor). He even calls out the queen for stripping you of your title, so he does not strike me as one that wants power for power's sake.

The hellknights are what an edgy 13 years old imagines the military's like. Not calling you any name or anything, to be clear, but not even the strictest real life militaries of the past were this strict because people are not motivated by this amount of abuse and violence.

Also they do have a big issue with authority. They often forget that the Knight Commander is the commander in chief and their concerns come second in respect to the crusade. I outright refused to tollerate their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in my campaign and they got the sword for it. Their choice too.

[ChompyRiley]

Originally posted by Heinz Pepperoni:

Originally posted by Vertigo:

I don't know. I see them more like the military. You have to follow orders no matter how much sense they make (or don't). They are supposed to be a highly disciplined force.

I don't think they would take over just because. Regill (and his chapter) have numerous opportunities to challenge or usurp you, but they never do (unless you prove to be worse than the demons). While he has no problems making his thoughts known, he never tries to undermine your decisions (unlike a certain other advisor). He even calls out the queen for stripping you of your title, so he does not strike me as one that wants power for power's sake.

The hellknights are what an edgy 13 years old imagines the military's like. Not calling you any name or anything, to be clear, but not even the strictest real life militaries of the past were this strict because people are not motivated by this amount of abuse and violence.

Also they do have a big issue with authority. They often forget that the Knight Commander is the commander in chief and their concerns come second in respect to the crusade. I outright refused to tollerate their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in my campaign and they got the sword for it. Their choice too.

To be fair, they are literally influenced by devils and are fighting against the embodied concept of Chaotic Evil. A real-world military would get infiltrated and corrupted more than it already is before it could blink going up against the billions of demons that can pour out of the world wound. You saw what one single lilitu was able to accomplish? Now imagine five of them. Ten. A hundred of them, manipulating and influencing the American Military.

[Heinz Pepperoni]

Originally posted by ChompyRiley:

Originally posted by Heinz Pepperoni:

The hellknights are what an edgy 13 years old imagines the military's like. Not calling you any name or anything, to be clear, but not even the strictest real life militaries of the past were this strict because people are not motivated by this amount of abuse and violence.

Also they do have a big issue with authority. They often forget that the Knight Commander is the commander in chief and their concerns come second in respect to the crusade. I outright refused to tollerate their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in my campaign and they got the sword for it. Their choice too.

To be fair, they are literally influenced by devils and are fighting against the embodied concept of Chaotic Evil. A real-world military would get infiltrated and corrupted more than it already is before it could blink going up against the billions of demons that can pour out of the world wound. You saw what one single lilitu was able to accomplish? Now imagine five of them. Ten. A hundred of them, manipulating and influencing the American Military.

Espionage and honey traps exist in real life as well and no big military has ever collapsed single-handedly because of it. Mendes has held for 100 years too in lore.
But it's pointless to argue ifs and buts in fiction anyway. My point is that they're completely disconnected from the idea of military for how we humans intend it. They're an exaggeration, because exaggerations in fiction are fun.

[Vertigo]

Originally posted by Heinz Pepperoni:

The hellknights are what an edgy 13 years old imagines the military's like. Not calling you any name or anything, to be clear, but not even the strictest real life militaries of the past were this strict because people are not motivated by this amount of abuse and violence.

Also they do have a big issue with authority. They often forget that the Knight Commander is the commander in chief and their concerns come second in respect to the crusade. I outright refused to tollerate their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in my campaign and they got the sword for it. Their choice too.

To be fair, I said "like." It is not a 1 for 1 analogy. A soldier abandoning his position could still be considered AWOL even if it was for a good cause. I would also somewhat disagree when it comes to abuse. The whole point of boot camp is to mentally break people down so that they can be molded into what is the "ideal" soldier (and for now, I won't touch on the hazings that can occur behind closed doors).

I would also point to a certain northern country in Asia who has had a leadership that has done some questionable practices with its military, but I digress.

To be fair, they are a separate group with a similar common interest as the queen. Just because they are working with the KC does not mean that they have to bow to him. It is clear they are there as a mutually beneficial alliance. Regill has no problem challenging the Queen on two different occasions (if she is with you on the way to Drezen and again in the Midnight Fane).

That said, I do think it's incredibly stupid to try and test the KC with an actual threat. While Regill's "plan" had some merit, he did it (I feel) the worst way possible.

[Heinz Pepperoni]

Originally posted by Vertigo:

To be fair, I said "like." It is not a 1 for 1 analogy. A soldier abandoning his position could still be considered AWOL even if it was for a good cause. I would also somewhat disagree when it comes to abuse. The whole point of boot camp is to mentally break people down so that they can be molded into what is the "ideal" soldier (and for now, I won't touch on the hazings that can occur behind closed doors).

I would also point to a certain northern country in Asia who has had a leadership that has done some questionable practices with its military, but I digress.

To be fair, they are a separate group with a similar common interest as the queen. Just because they are working with the KC does not mean that they have to bow to him. It is clear they are there as a mutually beneficial alliance. Regill has no problem challenging the Queen on two different occasions (if she is with you on the way to Drezen and again in the Midnight Fane).

That said, I do think it's incredibly stupid to try and test the KC with an actual threat. While Regill's "plan" had some merit, he did it (I feel) the worst way possible.

Well, and I said "by this amount of abuse", meaning that of course abuse has happened and still happens in any military force, regardless of any unofficial violent event usually common in armies that rely on the draft.
As far as the North Korean army goes, the average soldiers goes through starvation and several layers of propaganda and corruption. Hardly the Regil experience.

And finally, while they're a separate enthity, they still operate within the crusaders' umbrella and are based in foreign territory. They're part of the council of war but they do not call the shots, the player as the KC does, which means that they do not have the authority to dictate conditions or even put the commander in chief on trial. It'd be like a small time Kuwaiti general trying to question Schwarzkopf's authority in Desert Storm as the coalition commander.

[Vertigo]

Originally posted by Heinz Pepperoni:

Well, and I said "by this amount of abuse", meaning that of course abuse has happened and still happens in any military force, regardless of any unofficial violent event usually common in armies that rely on the draft.
As far as the North Korean army goes, the average soldiers goes through starvation and several layers of propaganda and corruption. Hardly the Regil experience.

And finally, while they're a separate enthity, they still operate within the crusaders' umbrella and are based in foreign territory. They're part of the council of war but they do not call the shots, the player as the KC does, which means that they do not have the authority to dictate conditions or even put the commander in chief on trial. It'd be like a small time Kuwaiti general trying to question Schwarzkopf's authority in Desert Storm as the coalition commander.

I was trying to avoid bringing real world countries into this because of the implications and the feelings carried with the mention of them. A certain country in the Middle East is very polarizing, and they may have been a better example.

Again, I feel Regill is reasonable on the council. He pointed out to Daeran that he cannot stop him from calling in his associates during a war council. He also never raises a fit when you do not select his options. His counter points are often reasonable and grounded.

Like you said, they do overstep their bounds when they try you. That and the initial "test" definitely go into "stupid evil" territory. It would make more sense for them to withdraw if they thought you could not be trusted. Like you, I think they work in a fantasy setting, so I am judging their merits there.

[ChompyRiley]

Originally posted by Vertigo:

Originally posted by Heinz Pepperoni:

Well, and I said "by this amount of abuse", meaning that of course abuse has happened and still happens in any military force, regardless of any unofficial violent event usually common in armies that rely on the draft.
As far as the North Korean army goes, the average soldiers goes through starvation and several layers of propaganda and corruption. Hardly the Regil experience.

And finally, while they're a separate enthity, they still operate within the crusaders' umbrella and are based in foreign territory. They're part of the council of war but they do not call the shots, the player as the KC does, which means that they do not have the authority to dictate conditions or even put the commander in chief on trial. It'd be like a small time Kuwaiti general trying to question Schwarzkopf's authority in Desert Storm as the coalition commander.

I was trying to avoid bringing real world countries into this because of the implications and the feelings carried with the mention of them. A certain country in the Middle East is very polarizing, and they may have been a better example.

Again, I feel Regill is reasonable on the council. He pointed out to Daeran that he cannot stop him from calling in his associates during a war council. He also never raises a fit when you do not select his options. His counter points are often reasonable and grounded.

Like you said, they do overstep their bounds when they try you. That and the initial "test" definitely go into "stupid evil" territory. It would make more sense for them to withdraw if they thought you could not be trusted. Like you, I think they work in a fantasy setting, so I am judging their merits there.

Whereas Lady "The Fox-♥♥♥♥♥" Konomi is the least diplomatic diplomat in the history of anything ever, and whines constantly if you so much as *question* her choices.

[Heinz Pepperoni]

Originally posted by Vertigo:

I was trying to avoid bringing real world countries into this because of the implications and the feelings carried with the mention of them. A certain country in the Middle East is very polarizing, and they may have been a better example.

Again, I feel Regill is reasonable on the council. He pointed out to Daeran that he cannot stop him from calling in his associates during a war council. He also never raises a fit when you do not select his options. His counter points are often reasonable and grounded.

Like you said, they do overstep their bounds when they try you. That and the initial "test" definitely go into "stupid evil" territory. It would make more sense for them to withdraw if they thought you could not be trusted. Like you, I think they work in a fantasy setting, so I am judging their merits there.

Alright, my bad. Was the simplest example I could think of and maybe I (we?) went too much on pointless tangents to elaborate on a point that did not need it.

But anyway I even agree with you that Regil was the more grounded member of the council and the one with the better options most of the times. God knows what the others were doing there. I've just seen the hellknights likened to real world entities many times over in discussions and this was the first time I challenged this view outloud. They're a fun caricature of our ideal of lawful-evil and applied macchiavellian thought, that's it, and they're fine for it.