Zippy Magic azat

[fire02]

does it work for kinetic charges?

[canuck250]

It used to work with the kinetic blast but was patched out a long time ago.

They are a weird class, their ranged attacks are considered natural attacks, things like magic fang and amulet of agile fists. They are not considered spells so any ability like elemental barrage that trigger from spells with an elemental type do not work.... However the feat elemental focus does work.

Their melee attack is like a weapon, working with magic weapon and crusader's edge, however it does not count as a weapon in your hand thus not being able to make attacks of opportunity or use cleaving finish as there is nothing in your hand to attack with... Things like haste do work because it adds an extra attack into your normal string of attacks with the elemental blade.

[pete3great]

Not anymore.

[Triple G]

Originally posted by canuck250:

Their melee attack is like a weapon, working with magic weapon and crusader's edge, however it does not count as a weapon in your hand thus not being able to make attacks of opportunity or use cleaving finish as there is nothing in your hand to attack with...

I tried a kinetic knight in kingmaker once, but was underwhelmed by the fact that any of my attacks would actually provoke an attack of opportunity, as i would need to create the blade first. Is that still the case?

And all in all i don´t really see the advantage of the melee kineticist over the ranged kineticist. They basically can do the same thing, while the ranged one is just better at it. Like why not throw the blade 30ft if You deal the same damage with it, while You don´t risk getting hit or could stay out of an area of effect? Kinetic knight has style points though...

[canuck250]

I could be wrong as I have not read the source material but there doesn't seem to be an actual blade. "Kineticists are living channels for elemental matter and energy, manipulating the world around them by drawing upon inner reserves from their own bodies." What you see in their hand is just a manisfestation of a weapon but not a physical thing. Like you couldn't block a sword attacking you with it. More like your ranged attacks, when you send out the attack or pulse, the energy forms and hits. But how that all really ties into their abilities, I dunno, I just test to see what works then do mental gymnastics to understand/justify, they are my fav class so most my time is on them.

All in all, like a paladin divine weapon bond, not everything being equal is not a big issue. It def is not on the same power level as a horse when you unlock it but it has amazing end game properties. Also nice to not be railroaded into only taking pets and horses. You also might not want or need more bodies on the field/front line. Some people hate having a horse in their game.

What a melee kineticist has over a ranged on is better single target damage. Another benefit is a different play style. My first full run was a demon kineticist who used deadly earth and cloud. It was fun for most of the run being able to solo aoe everything in the game.. but by the end it was getting boring. The last run I completed I did a lightning kine who did not use deadly earth or rely on their OP spells, I had a great time in that run. Act 5 and 6 was on paper "more boring" then my demon run because I was just solo meleeing everything but it was way more fun for me. Especially because of how durable I was, kineticist can reach great defensive stats so why not use em and do more ST damage? You don't need anything in this game so there is a valid reason to do anything, diff strokes for diff folks... Also many big synergies that really boost things and ways to have anti synergy. As you are not wrong, the lack of AoO really hurts a melee kineticist so hard to justify it in a melee heavy party. Tho they do have some tricks that help, like being strong trippers and prone = death vs melee party.

[fire02]

for a kineticist, which mythic is better to take, except for the trickster?

[canuck250]

Originally posted by fire02:

for a kineticist, which mythic is better to take, except for the trickster?

"Better" for me is diff then for you, crpgbro has a video that might help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stPi8Qd_0TY

I do think his Demon Kineticist build is a great starting point tho, it has a synergy with deadly earth so can reach the highest aoe damage. One annoying thing is that it always friendly fires so can kill your team pretty quick, I had to leave them on hold and back a decent ways. Worst aspect is after beating a boss, it forces you into a cut scene and then moves your party onto your deadly earth, which wipes you after the cut scene is over. Overall tho, it is a really fun run, the power fantasy of the demon run combined with the power of kineticist was great.

For my trickster-gold dragon run, I started out as a squishy ranged blaster and then by late game was a solo melee monster, so you can have variety in your run with their playstyle. Very awkward and limited but still somehow very versatile class.

Originally posted by fire02:

for a kineticist, which mythic is better to take, except for the trickster?

What were you wanting from kineticist? Any element or style in mind?

[Clangeddin.86]

Originally posted by fire02:

for a kineticist, which mythic is better to take, except for the trickster?

You really can't go wrong with swarm kineticist late game, unless you somehow manage to mess up the build that bad, just make sure to get at least Magic Nullification and Deadly Earth. Anything that increases initiative so you strike them first and makes deadly earth AoE knockdown (if by any chance something survives 3-4 deadly earths in a row...) is an added plus. Put a Cloud on top of that and you have an AoE killing machine cannon.

As for the early game, there is some interaction with Lich path that adds some negative damage to blasts and allows to convert all damage to negative, with Ascendant Element Negative that would make the blasts fully bypass all types of reduction and deal a bit more damage as well, but this doesn't go well with Swarm because it loses the negative damage convert abilities.

Then again kineticist works pretty much on every path, it's just that good, I think only the kinetic knight is in a potentially bad spot since it's supposed to be a melee (?) class and doesn't seem to gain as much as it loses.

[canuck250]

Originally posted by Clangeddin.86:

I think only the kinetic knight is in a potentially bad spot since it's supposed to be a melee (?) class and doesn't seem to gain as much as it loses.

It really trades off too much and doesn't get enough back, with how they do not get AoO, it really is hard to justify this class. Esp because the other classes eventually get to swing kinetic blade for no burn, basically leaving them with heavy armour prof and a bunch less damage as a difference.

Altho I did run kinetic knight in the side story dlc, through the ashes and now lord of nothing. I had to find a way to use the subclass somehow.

[fire02]

Originally posted by fire02:

for a kineticist, which mythic is better to take, except for the trickster?

What were you wanting from kineticist? Any element or style in mind? [/quote]

kinetic caster at a distance

[canuck250]

Originally posted by fire02:

Originally posted by fire02:

for a kineticist, which mythic is better to take, except for the trickster?

What were you wanting from kineticist? Any element or style in mind?

kinetic caster at a distance [/quote]
How experienced are you with the game? The class is rather nuanced so don't want to skip details or drag down on them. Ultimately their kit is strong enough on it's own that as ppl have said the mythic is more a bonus (which can be a massive bonus) so you got room to more play to what you like then what is best.

For Kine "theory", their element choices have the biggest impact on their options and playstyles. They all can do a lot of damage but some can get more cc/dmg/support/tanky at different stages depending on your choices.

Starting fire into fire is more like your glass cannon, amplified with the elemental engine subclass.

Water-earth-air like in bro's demon build I think is the most stable from the start to finish. Get all the big aoe damage with deadly earth and cloud, cc with trips and tanky thru water/earth/air.

2 big things between these are physical or energy. Fire is energy and fire-fire is an energy composite blast, the only composite blast that is full energy. Energy is like ray spells, in that they target touch ac, which is lower then normal ac, but at a bit less damage then physical blasts. Fire does get extra damage infusions to boost their dps. The catch with elemental is that you have to pass spell resistance so you will need ascendant element to bypass immunities and spell pen feats. An exception to this is a mixed composite blast, say fire and air, the blast is physical but with an elemental damage portion. Meaning you only have to pass AC and Immunities, you still need ascendant element but not spell pen feats.

but you might want to take lightning or ice for RP reasons, they are not as powerful as the other options but they still are useful. With lightning the magnetic infusion is a -4 ac for things attacking with metal weapons. Very handy if you have a couple strong weapon users, arrows are metal, I used lightning for my GD and this was huge thru the first half of the game. You want a witch companion (ember) to use vulnerability hex (same as a fire or any other elemental kine) on enemies before you get ascendant element. Then if you give your witch evil eye, that stacked with magnetic is even more nice. If you have cam as well, you can get -12 ac at level 8. Ice has entangle which is -2 hit and -2 ac, a nice all around debuff.

Sorry for the rambling, there are just so many neuances, like how you can only take fire-fire if you start with fire, like how you can only go air-lightning if you start with one of those. Earth doesn't mix with ice or lightning for a composite blast. Not every element has access to every blast time, one of their strongest power spikes is level 12 getting deadly earth. However you need to take earth + fire/water/earth to be able to take it then.

[fire02]

Originally posted by canuck250:

How experienced are you with the game? The class is rather nuanced so don't want to skip details or drag down on them. Ultimately their kit is strong enough on it's own that as ppl have said the mythic is more a bonus (which can be a massive bonus) so you got room to more play to what you like then what is best.

For Kine "theory", their element choices have the biggest impact on their options and playstyles. They all can do a lot of damage but some can get more cc/dmg/support/tanky at different stages depending on your choices.

Starting fire into fire is more like your glass cannon, amplified with the elemental engine subclass.

Water-earth-air like in bro's demon build I think is the most stable from the start to finish. Get all the big aoe damage with deadly earth and cloud, cc with trips and tanky thru water/earth/air.

2 big things between these are physical or energy. Fire is energy and fire-fire is an energy composite blast, the only composite blast that is full energy. Energy is like ray spells, in that they target touch ac, which is lower then normal ac, but at a bit less damage then physical blasts. Fire does get extra damage infusions to boost their dps. The catch with elemental is that you have to pass spell resistance so you will need ascendant element to bypass immunities and spell pen feats. An exception to this is a mixed composite blast, say fire and air, the blast is physical but with an elemental damage portion. Meaning you only have to pass AC and Immunities, you still need ascendant element but not spell pen feats.

but you might want to take lightning or ice for RP reasons, they are not as powerful as the other options but they still are useful. With lightning the magnetic infusion is a -4 ac for things attacking with metal weapons. Very handy if you have a couple strong weapon users, arrows are metal, I used lightning for my GD and this was huge thru the first half of the game. You want a witch companion (ember) to use vulnerability hex (same as a fire or any other elemental kine) on enemies before you get ascendant element. Then if you give your witch evil eye, that stacked with magnetic is even more nice. If you have cam as well, you can get -12 ac at level 8. Ice has entangle which is -2 hit and -2 ac, a nice all around debuff.

Sorry for the rambling, there are just so many neuances, like how you can only take fire-fire if you start with fire, like how you can only go air-lightning if you start with one of those. Earth doesn't mix with ice or lightning for a composite blast. Not every element has access to every blast time, one of their strongest power spikes is level 12 getting deadly earth. However you need to take earth + fire/water/earth to be able to take it then.

That's understandable, thank you! I would also like to understand which myth to choose for him (kinetics) so that it is as effective and interesting as possible...

[canuck250]

I say either demon, lich or the one you said no to trickster.

If demon, focus on tripping power and deadly earth. Since you can have a wall (anything gets this), deadly earth and cloud out at the same time, you want elements to get them, hence the water-earth-air build. But a earth/fire/air can do the same, a bit more dps but less tanky.

If lich, @Clangeddin.86 put in 2 cents there, I have not got to this run so no real input but for those that like the undead, good rp for them.

If trickster do not finish as it, transition to swarm or gold dragon. Swarm for ranged, gold dragon for melee.

The base class is by far my favourite of them, can not go wrong with it. If you like glass cannons then elemental engine. Can go psycho as it is the same as the base but adds an extra ability score to pump.

Base kine only needs dex and con, then not negative wis for saving throws. You can skimp on con when going phsycho so you are not getting as much dps as the elemental engine but not as much hp as base, then with high burn you wis saves tank a good bit.

[canuck250]

I always forget about Aeon, not as big of synergies but def will not hamper you so a decent choice, I have not done it so do not fully know the highs/lows.

[canuck250]

For race, there are 3 strong choices and then some other good ones as well. Human is huge for a ranged attacker, it lets you take point blank shot and precise shot at level 1, mandatory feats for ranged casting. Half elf if you want to go fire-fire for extra spell pen. Kitsune, high dex for blasting and a free shapeshift so you can take master shapeshifter early for more hit and damage (from base class as con=damage)

[fire02]

Originally posted by canuck250:

For race, there are 3 strong choices and then some other good ones as well. Human is huge for a ranged attacker, it lets you take point blank shot and precise shot at level 1, mandatory feats for ranged casting. Half elf if you want to go fire-fire for extra spell pen. Kitsune, high dex for blasting and a free shapeshift so you can take master shapeshifter early for more hit and damage (from base class as con=damage)

How is blood kinetics played?