Best magic user class

[GienekMaster]

Hello,

I don't have time due to work and family to test all the archetypes and classes, so I'd like to ask here: what is the best magic class in the game for the fun (I don't care for min-maxing)?

By fun I mean many spell slots and spell use per day. Because as far as I saw you need to choose and magic users have many slots and little use or little slots but much use. But the game like mixing classes so is there a mix allowing me casting many spells quite often?

[JacobTheViking]

I haven't played them all yet, but so far the funnest for me is Empyreal Sorcerer.

[Martialis]

You are talking about the difference between sorcerers (few spells, but more spell uses per day), and wizards (more spells in your spellbook, but fewer uses).

Fortunately, the game doesn't make you choose. Choose the "Abundant Spells" mythic feats, and you will have all the spells per day you will ever want.

I like the Elemental Specialist wizard. You choose an element to specialize in, and then convert all of your damage spells (except force) to that element. Pick the "Ascendent Element" mythic to make enemies vulnerable to that same element.

Of course, a lot of people say that controller wizards or sorcs are better. Just focus on Enchantment or Illusion spells instead of Evocation, but I personally don't really care for "save or suck" spells. Your choice though.

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

Exploiter Wizard, all the power of a Wizard with the Exploits of an Arcanist. It remains my favorite arcane caster.

Edit:

For more details i use the Table Top Tweaks mod to make the game closer to actual table top. This mod adds a few features that makes this class even better. Quick Study lets you swap a spell memorized for another one. This gives you AMAZING versatility that a Sorcerer will never have. It also adds the Lecturer Background which gives you Intelligence to Persuasion checks rather then Cha. Which now makes you the perfect MC. All knowledge skills and talking skills all wrapped up in one character. Plus you'll be focused on Int for your casting... top it off with Potent Arcane trick and you can now boost your CL or DC by +2 on top of any feats.

Exploiter Wizard is a power house even without the mod, but table top just makes it better.

[pete3great]

Originally posted by Martialis:

Of course, a lot of people say that controller wizards or sorcs are better.

This kills me because one caster can be both a blaster and a controller. You don't have to limit the PC to just one.

[GunStarX]

Just my own opinion but I'm going to have to say witch is the "best" caster class to play, since you can spam the very useful and powerful hexes. You will always have something to do besides shoot a crossbow. Ley line guardian and stigmatized witch give you a spontaneous caster option if you prefer that. Merging with lich is the strongest option and makes the limited witch spell list kind of moot

[smellibear]

If you want to maximize fun and number of casts per day, play a sorcerer. If you want to maximize the number of spells you can cast and switch up as needed, play a wizard. Sorc base stat is Cha which applies to lots of useful stuff, but Wizards are Int based and basically skill monkeys. There are others but it sounds like you want one of those two

[BlueBangkok]

+1 for exploiter wizard
That guy just wrecks everything with high DC spells.

As for spell slots, you can take abundant casting line of mythic abilities and then it basically doesn't matter whether you are a sorcerer, wizard, or witch.

[lemurs2]

Wizard.

[Uzkin]

IMO, wizards are better than spontaneous casters. Wizards gain new spell levels faster, and do not get penalized for using metamagic feats.

[reidj062]

Originally posted by GienekMaster:

Hello,

I don't have time due to work and family to test all the archetypes and classes, so I'd like to ask here: what is the best magic class in the game for the fun (I don't care for min-maxing)?

By fun I mean many spell slots and spell use per day. Because as far as I saw you need to choose and magic users have many slots and little use or little slots but much use. But the game like mixing classes so is there a mix allowing me casting many spells quite often?

So, as I told a player once, it depends what you are going for. Pathfinder is a team game. That means no one class is the best at everything.

If there was a class that was super awesome at everything, everyone would just pick that and play solo like it was an Elder Scrolls game.

In this game, wizards and sorcerers are one of the easiest classes to minmax, because you pump 90% of your stats into your spellcasting stat, then a bit into Con and Dex (for AC and ranged spell attacks) and you are golden. Wizards gain the benefit of being specialists, so you can just focus on all those spell focus feats and the mythic feat that increases your caster level for your chosen feat. You can also learn new spells from scrolls. Sorcerers gain more spells, though they have a slower spell progression. They can also metamagic on the fly, though casting such spells takes longer than a prepared caster.

Clerics have the advantage of versatility- they can be a healer, serve as a martial combatant, buff your party, or serve as an offensive spellcaster, depending on your needs in any situation. However, it's hard to build them well because they need points in almost every stat. Oracles are like divine sorcerers, wtih similar trade-offs.

Alchemists, especially those that focus on grenades, can be devastating because they end up focusing on touch AC, one of the weakest defenses in the game. They can learn spells from scrolls lke a wizard, and their grenades do elemental damage while bypassing spell resistance- something any true spellcaster would be envious of. One of the main downsides of an alchemist, however, is that they are not as strongly supported with mythic abilities and feats.

[BlueBangkok]

Originally posted by talemore:

Nobody play wizards into an extreme focus since you can not rely on only mirror image for the rest of the game like in the old games.

You can rely a lot on invisibility and mirror images if you have mind blank up which you should have 24/7 from the moment you get it.

Originally posted by talemore:

You need transmutation, necromancy, illusion just for buffing health and defence.

Illusion has some of the most powerful CC spells in this game (phantasmal putrefaction) and also very powerful attack spells (phantasmal killer / weird). Unlike Kingmaker which had plenty of undead and mind-immune enemies, demons are not immune to phantasmal insta-kills. It's not only buffing.
Necro buffs such as false life are useless, if you aren't a Lich, because it's much better to not get hit.
Transmutation is important but can be supplemented by someone else if necessary.

Originally posted by talemore:

It's easy to make a cleric if realize they're no melee characters at all. They have more common with wizards.

Depends on which cleric, and angel cleric / oracle with merged spellbook is one of the most powerful melee hybrids in the game.

Originally posted by talemore:

Yes some classes are just better. That wizard gets spells at one level faster do not matter in the end. It means you are going to put 20 levels into a wizard as if it was a linear fighter and at every level up you going to make a camping. In this game camping may trigger bad events where you won't finish tasks in time.

The fact that wizard gets higher level spells faster matters in the beginning of the game which is the hardest part. It can easily mean getting a higher level spell many hours of gameplay sooner.
Once you have abundant casting you don't need to camp often and it doesn't matter what kind of caster you are, you will have more than enough spells.

Originally posted by talemore:

Wizard end up to be just like sorcerer. Its not about what makes it easy to win. It's about what make it easy to play and administration 9 levels of spells may not be fun. wiith a total of 216 spells for a whole party who you have to not only keep on track but as well know they are the spells you want for the next session.
With sorcerer you get 54 sorcerer spells from a pool of even further spells vs 216 wizard spells for a whole party not to be used but to keep on track that you want to use them.

I agree that sorcerer is more flexible in his spell casts since you can cast 6x meteor shower for example while with wizard you would have to memorize it 6 times.
But if you played this game or Kingmaker before you should have pretty good idea what spells to memorize and when.
From gameplay perspective, whether you choose a wizard or a sorcerer depends mainly on the mythic path and what kind of caster you want to be.

[ayrtep]

Originally posted by GienekMaster:

Hello,

I don't have time due to work and family to test all the archetypes and classes, so I'd like to ask here: what is the best magic class in the game for the fun (I don't care for min-maxing)?

By fun I mean many spell slots and spell use per day. Because as far as I saw you need to choose and magic users have many slots and little use or little slots but much use. But the game like mixing classes so is there a mix allowing me casting many spells quite often?

Difficult to judge what someone else likes. I guess wizard or sorcerer depending on how much you like flexible spell choice. There is also thassilonian specialist who get an extra spell per level.

Witches are not as good as wizards - but if you like using their hexes you could try them. Winter witch is almost as good as a wizard so could try that.

Once you start get mythic levels there are feats that give you large number of extra spell slots so any spell caster should be good by then.

Anyway I suggest don't over think it. Go base-wizard/Evocation and kill enemies with direct damage.

[globo]

I would argue that hexes used by witches and shamans might add to the overall pool of spells. I mean no matter how many spells you have per day, it is a finite resource. But you can cast hexes like Evil eye, protective luck, cackle, with absolutely no limitations and be a pretty decent debuffer/buffer all day long with a full spellbook of arcane or divine spells. By the way hexes stack from different characters.

It's a personal matter, I favor efficiency over variety so with the same logic I can consider the kineticist as an alternative to sorcerer.

[Soul]

in terms of wizard vs sorcerer its pretty much how you prefer to play.... I love sorcerers cause it fits my style of gaming....

the base classes of sorcerer can cast 6 spells per day for each spell level while wizard is 4 spell slots per spell level.... thats base class not counting stats and gear...... a wizard has 2 less spell slots than a sorcerer... can learn higher level spells 1 level earlier since sorcerer is delayed by one level behind in spell progression... and is able to prepare any spell they know ahead of time... which means if you know what your up against you could memorize the right spells for every encounter pretty much... a lot of ppl like wizards cause of this... they can fill their spellbooks with spells and switch out as the situation arises....

sorcerers on the other hand learn only a couple of spells per level but what they learn they can pull off better than a wizard can in casting.... without sacrificing other spells... metamagics really shine for sorcerers... in real time its kinda slow to do metamagics as a sorcerer but in turn based its a lot more manageable... and my preferred mode anyways to cast spells...

lets look at a level 3 spell haste... and lets compare what a sorcerer and wizard level 10 can do with it....

a sorcerer by level 10 would have 3rd level spells per day at 6... 4th level spells per day at 5.... and 5th level spells per day at 3.... with metamagics like extend, or heighten.... they could have haste ready to cast at any of those spell slots if they ever need it... so from the base class they would be able to cast haste 13 times at level 10 if they wanted to...

a wizard by level 10 would have 3rd level slots at 3.... 4th level slots at 3... and 5th level slots at 2.... so if you wanted to cast haste for all spell levels with metamagics you'd be able to cast only 8...

of course the kicker is that sorcerers know only a few spells and can change the flow of what they want to do.... you may not want to cast 13 hastes at level 10..... maybe instead you could cast 13 lightning bolts another level 3 spell.... a wizard has to prepare so many of whatever spell they want in advance... and if you prepare the wrong amount or wrong spells well.... too bad...

and spells like grease?... oh boy.... its a level 1 spell but with metamagics on a sorcerer.... as long as you got spells per day you got grease lol... without having to sacrifice anything.... not to mention buffs.... resist energy communal alongside mythic enduring and greater enduring spells... go ahead and let the enemy try dispelling.... can rebuff for days... lol... your like the energizer bunny as a sorcerer...

[Uzkin]

A trickster wizard can cast (completely normal) level 9 spells when their class level is 15.

A trickster sorcerer can cast level 9 spells at class level 18, at the earliest (whether completely normal or not).

The former thus gains access to high-level spells MUCH MUCH faster than the latter. And the Abundant Casting line + gear + caster stat provides them with sufficient number of spell slots.