Hag Companion Core Issue

[jesselsat]

So I did a run in Midnight Isles with the new witch archetype that gives you a Hag Companion.

I assumed this would be powerful, as pets are generally very powerful.

Unfortunately the core design principle of the Hags is that they can only cast low level spells.


Even ignoring the fact that the spells are largely very useless, there is absolutely no way for the Hag to have a DC high enough to successfully cast anything but haste when the spells are mostly levels 1-3.

I'm just a bit flabbergasted at the design here. At least give them some kind of DC buff so they can successfully cast a spell on occasion please.

[canuck250]

The hag has haste and big monster strength. Make her a bonker and use buffs

[Schlumpsha]

My problem with the night hag is that we cannot change all of her equipment slots. Which by all means we very much should be able to. *cough*Skeletal Champion*cough*

And that the mythic ability Mythical Beast won't affect her at all. True, she may strictly speaking be no animal companion. But since a lot of popular buffs won't affect the night hag's creature type, being unaffected by Mythical Beast just hurts so much more.

[MjKorz]

Try buffing her with a Court Poet that has the Mythic Inspiration mythic ability. That's how you should be buffing the spell DC of any caster in the current patch (unless they are a WIS caster, then you have my condolences).

[Brother Santodes]

i wonder if that works i mean this pet doesn't have a spell book and can use every "cast" as often as they pleases.

[jesselsat]

Originally posted by canuck250:

The hag has haste and big monster strength. Make her a bonker and use buffs

You can't change her weapon - which is a quarterstaff.

She also didn't get any feats to help make her a viable melee character.

it's just overall badly implemented and non-viable.

[Brother Santodes]

what is wrong with that weapon? buff it to 5 and hit stuff it has like 23 bab.
should be similar to a none op pet if not better.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Schlumpsha:

My problem with the night hag is that we cannot change all of her equipment slots. Which by all means we very much should be able to. *cough*Skeletal Champion*cough*

And that the mythic ability Mythical Beast won't affect her at all. True, she may strictly speaking be no animal companion. But since a lot of popular buffs won't affect the night hag's creature type, being unaffected by Mythical Beast just hurts so much more.

And they should not be as they are evil outsiders(fiends), hags and humanoids, so not beasts. (Hags depending on what system or edition you play are usually subraces of either fey or monstrous humanoids. And night hags are hags+evil outsiders. )
Haven't tried out the new summon classes, as sadly, something went wrong with the new patch, and i cannot patch/install the game since. It crashes the GOG.
So i can only rely on Night Hag stuff from book sources(Ravenloft:P) and internet(PF).
But i would think that having a night hag summon/companion for one of your companions should be a serious thing. They are quite deadly and dreaded creatures, and ALWAYS EVIL:D So having one as ally even in a fight against the demons, would be quite questionable, even more so than having the hellknights:D

[Schlumpsha]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

But i would think that having a night hag summon/companion for one of your companions should be a serious thing. They are quite deadly and dreaded creatures, and ALWAYS EVIL:D So having one as ally even in a fight against the demons, would be quite questionable, even more so than having the hellknights:D

Oh how I'd wish Owlcat would have actually implemented the Hag of Gyronna's night hag as a proper night hag. Alas, that is sadly not the case. The night hag Owlcat implemented is but a shadow of Paizo's official creature entry.

In a nutshell:
- homebrewed to be an Monstrous Humanoid rather than an Outsider
- no natural attacks
- no transmitting of the demon fever disease via Bite
- no immunities whatsoever
- no spell resistance

All evil granny has going on for her is a 5/bludgeon, 10 natural AC, max. level of 23 rather than 20, a raised Charisma score of 26. Plus 20 spell-like abilities ranging from low to mid level spells. Oh, and a Quarterstaff +3 that cannot be unequiped.

[revan1229]

Shadowcasters have it way worse... At least the hag won't turn on you.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Schlumpsha:

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

But i would think that having a night hag summon/companion for one of your companions should be a serious thing. They are quite deadly and dreaded creatures, and ALWAYS EVIL:D So having one as ally even in a fight against the demons, would be quite questionable, even more so than having the hellknights:D

Oh how I'd wish Owlcat would have actually implemented the Hag of Gyronna's night hag as a proper night hag. Alas, that is sadly not the case. The night hag Owlcat implemented is but a shadow of Paizo's official creature entry.

In a nutshell:
- homebrewed to be an Monstrous Humanoid rather than an Outsider
- no natural attacks
- no transmitting of the demon fever disease via Bite
- no immunities whatsoever
- no spell resistance

All evil granny has going on for her is a 5/bludgeon, 10 natural AC, max. level of 23 rather than 20, a raised Charisma score of 26. Plus 20 spell-like abilities ranging from low to mid level spells. Oh, and a Quarterstaff +3 that cannot be unequiped.

Sadly as i said since currently i have issues with patching the game, i cannot try it out:S (Also probably would take a while to get to a part where i could get the companion.)

But a Night Hag should stay an evil outsider. Because that is its main distinctinction from other hags, being a soul broker. (Allthough i have to confess i know most about Ravenloft Night Hags, and barely anything about Piazzos PF Night Hag.)

So basicly a useless summon, well another meat shield it is then.

[Samaelfallen]

It's also crazy that the night hag has a staff instead of her iconic claw attack. Not even a staff that buffs spells, adds spell pen/DC, or debuffs enemies. Just +3.

[Dre]

You have so much good points, but well, I understand that for balancing, having a real night hag could be so much. But after playing, I would be ok for me these changes:

-Renaming the staff +3 so could be the Night Hag´s jewel the one insided the staff, so can´t be removed because that.
-Adding a disease attack to the staff, like the fever.
-Changing the type to "outsider" or adding it.

I think those changes are minor tweaks that could maintain the same balance, and more lore friendly (like the changes we saw time ago the mythic transformation of the Aeon and Swarm that walks)