Did they fix "Allied spellcaster" yet?

[mbradtke]

Topic, would like to know (-:
Unlikely it is supposed to stack, because teamwork feats dont work like this, you get a fixed bonus, as described in the tooltip, no matter how many have the feat, always the same bonus, with minor changes maybe, like for shielded caster.
I got very weird results by searching the BUG in the forum, some even state it is totally broken now and may even give negative spell pen. bonus....

[KocLobster]

The two or more people with the Allied Spellcaster feat have to be "adjacent". I believe that specifically means within 5 feet or less, which is practically standing on top of each other in game.

Teamwork feats don't stack. You either get the bonus listed or don't.

This specific avenue of increasing your chance to overcome spell resistance only appears as a buff/status effect on your characters. They do not appear to change what you see for "Spell Penetration" in your spellbook. You can only determine if the feat is actually working by using the combat log & simple math... which is frustrating.

Teamwork feats are basically permanent buffs/status effects. But it's always displayed no matter what, even if you aren't close enough to the other person to get the bonus. This is probably why there is confusion on whether it works or not.

Both the spellbook where your Spell Penetration is displayed and the combat log where it shows what roll you got to overcome spell resistance do not break down in detail (like how your AC gets broken down in detail, for example) how the game calculated what your spell pen was. Also frustrating.




TLDR: Allied Spellcaster works fine, but you have to be really close to the other person with it and it's difficult to see evidence that it's actually working without some effort.

[mbradtke]

so it doesnt stack anymore? last time people reported that it would stack, it works like this in kingmaker as well, so if 4 people have the feat you can get +8 spell pen.

[KocLobster]

Originally posted by mbradtke:

so it doesnt stack anymore? last time people reported that it would stack, it works like this in kingmaker as well, so if 4 people have the feat you can get +8 spell pen.

Hmmm, maybe it does stack. Im sure its a bug if it does. At the very least, it doesn't give negative spell penetration or is broken entirely. I didn't say anything because my post was already really long but... I had some spell pen rolls that I couldn't make sense of.

I may have been getting +4 spell pen instead of +2. I didn't do extensive testing because my hands hurt.

[Soul]

Originally posted by cookie!:

Originally posted by mbradtke:

so it doesnt stack anymore? last time people reported that it would stack, it works like this in kingmaker as well, so if 4 people have the feat you can get +8 spell pen.

Hmmm, maybe it does stack. Im sure its a bug if it does. At the very least, it doesn't give negative spell penetration or is broken entirely. I didn't say anything because my post was already really long but... I had some spell pen rolls that I couldn't make sense of.

I may have been getting +4 spell pen instead of +2. I didn't do extensive testing because my hands hurt.

I tested it sometime last year.... and it did stack.... and the range was.... bigger than you'd expect... like I could have a character about 30 ft away with allied spellcaster with no one around.... and I could take allied spellcaster feats on my melee and while their grouped up my lone character was benefiting from it...

but yeah... with each person within range it would stack... +2 per companion, pet, summon....

[KocLobster]

Originally posted by Soul:

Originally posted by cookie!:

Hmmm, maybe it does stack. Im sure its a bug if it does. At the very least, it doesn't give negative spell penetration or is broken entirely. I didn't say anything because my post was already really long but... I had some spell pen rolls that I couldn't make sense of.

I may have been getting +4 spell pen instead of +2. I didn't do extensive testing because my hands hurt.

I tested it sometime last year.... and it did stack.... and the range was.... bigger than you'd expect... like I could have a character about 30 ft away with allied spellcaster with no one around.... and I could take allied spellcaster feats on my melee and while their grouped up my lone character was benefiting from it...

but yeah... with each person within range it would stack... +2 per companion, pet, summon....

I'm not sure wtf was going on then. Part of my frustration is that in the combat log, your spell pen is not detailed, you can only see the d20 roll you got and modifier (spell penetration) number... but not what individual things contributed to that spell pen modifier.

Sometimes I got 24, 26, 30. It seemed like it was only working when you were really close to the other allied spellcasters.

[Soul]

Originally posted by cookie!:

Originally posted by Soul:

I tested it sometime last year.... and it did stack.... and the range was.... bigger than you'd expect... like I could have a character about 30 ft away with allied spellcaster with no one around.... and I could take allied spellcaster feats on my melee and while their grouped up my lone character was benefiting from it...

but yeah... with each person within range it would stack... +2 per companion, pet, summon....

I'm not sure wtf was going on then. Part of my frustration is that in the combat log, your spell pen is not detailed, you can only see the d20 roll you got and modifier (spell penetration) number... but not what individual things contributed to that spell pen modifier.

Sometimes I got 24, 26, 30. It seemed like it was only working when you were really close to the other allied spellcasters.

yeah allied spellcaster didnt show up on log for me.... I had to trial and error it with moving party members far away..... like far far away lol.... and do the calculations myself...

not sure how many months ago that was..... but as far as patch notes I havent seen anything said about any changes to it.... so cant say it works the same as when I tested it or not....

cause things do get broken now and then with patches and have to rediscover them...

[Soul]

ah found an old post from March 1st 2023...

Originally posted by Soul:

I just did some testing with the beta on this.....

gave myself, nenio, daeran, and ember.... all at level 7 vs a gargoyle with spell resistance...
I had on robes of inevitability for +2 to spell penetration checks...
character sheet in spellbook displays me as having 9 spell penetration....

all grouped together my main's magic missile hit with a +19 modifier to spell penetration....

moved everyone together away from my main and this time a +17 modifier to spell penetration...

then moved the group that I had move away spread out from each other and fired again with my main.... it was a +11 modifier to spell penetration....

conclusion.... it doesnt display on spellbook the increases... but in combat log it does.... also for some reason if multiple characters have feat and are standing near each other... then the ones isolated from the others still get same benefit...

[KocLobster]

Originally posted by Soul:

ah found an old post from March 1st 2023...

Originally posted by Soul:

I just did some testing with the beta on this.....

gave myself, nenio, daeran, and ember.... all at level 7 vs a gargoyle with spell resistance...
I had on robes of inevitability for +2 to spell penetration checks...
character sheet in spellbook displays me as having 9 spell penetration....

all grouped together my main's magic missile hit with a +19 modifier to spell penetration....

moved everyone together away from my main and this time a +17 modifier to spell penetration...

then moved the group that I had move away spread out from each other and fired again with my main.... it was a +11 modifier to spell penetration....

conclusion.... it doesnt display on spellbook the increases... but in combat log it does.... also for some reason if multiple characters have feat and are standing near each other... then the ones isolated from the others still get same benefit...

Bizarre. I love WOTR but in typical Owlcat fashion, it's still broken and probably has been for years lol.

Originally posted by mbradtke:

So the takeaway is that allied spellcasting works at least as well as it says it does, but often it works even better or stacks if more than 2 people have it... which may or may not be intended by the devs.

[Soul]

Originally posted by cookie!:

Bizarre. I love WOTR but in typical Owlcat fashion, it's still broken and probably has been for years lol.

So the takeaway is that allied spellcasting works at least as well as it says it does, but often it works even better or stacks if more than 2 people have it... which may or may not be intended by the devs.

well... to be honest I think their doing a decent job at it.... I mean yeah its a slow process... but looking at it from a bigger picture.... they have like over 200 classes with the ability to multiclass them.... along with 20th level campaign with mythic paths....

to me it seems REALLY ambitious.... I mean something like Baldurs Gate 3 has how many classes?.... like 12 base classes... with small variations between them.... and they dont even go that high in level....

Pathfinder has a lot more to work with and balance out... even multiplayer games like Overwatch and such have to constantly get patches and fixes and adjustments to things... for a single player game these devs seem to have a lot more things to work with I think....

and while true they are patching things a little bit late with some things we've taken for granted.... like taking multiple dragon bloodline stacking... (I personally didnt use cause OCD wouldnt fit it in my game Lore wise)..... they did kinda balance it out before they nerfed it.... like there is that amulet from Ulbrig's questline that can give the same effect but better than stacking dragon bloodlines.... just get it much later is all... not to mention introducing the geomancer... which has potential to add more damage to spells while at the same time fixing / nerfing chain lightning....

but it seems like to me their more laser focused on bugs and such that are detrimental to the player rather than laser focused on bugs that are beneficial to the player...

[mbradtke]

thanks guys (:
so it seems it is working currently but it stacks, what is a bug, dont think it is intended to be honest, i think it is safe to say by now that if something works clearly different than the tooltip says it is a bug and not intented, also if u compare the strenght of allied caster to a normal +2 spell pen. feat and the fact that there is no other teamwork feat that stacks like this, we can be even more sure of it
that being said, i also think they are focusing more on detrimental bugs, what makes sense to be honest, there is also often the option not to exploit bugs by not using it,
though it seems they are trying to fix broken stuff, they fixed crane wing at last,
another good example would be the metamagic feat that lets you cast grease without affecting allies, even though it is supposed to only affect isntant damage spells

[Soul]

Originally posted by mbradtke:

thanks guys (:
so it seems it is working currently but it stacks, what is a bug, dont think it is intended to be honest, i think it is safe to say by now that if something works clearly different than the tooltip says it is a bug and not intented, also if u compare the strenght of allied caster to a normal +2 spell pen. feat and the fact that there is no other teamwork feat that stacks like this, we can be even more sure of it
that being said, i also think they are focusing more on detrimental bugs, what makes sense to be honest, there is also often the option not to exploit bugs by not using it,
though it seems they are trying to fix broken stuff, they fixed crane wing at last,
another good example would be the metamagic feat that lets you cast grease without affecting allies, even though it is supposed to only affect isntant damage spells

lol dont touch my selective grease.... :P

though im a little confused on the whole argument over the duration of the spell thing ppl say about it...

I mean if grease is wrong then I suppose things like web, glittterdust, sirocco.... would fall into that same category....

and only thing selective would be good for is things like fireball and lightning bolt....

I use selective metamagic for grease, web, glitterdust, fireball, lightning bolt, sirocco.... but if it is change to only affect fireball and lightning bolt... then I dont think it would be worth taking...

[RandomDude2018]

There's nothing to fix. Not for you to decide if it should stack or not.

It works exactly as described.

I've played the game since the release and never had any problems with it.

[Triple G]

Originally posted by RandomDude2018:

There's nothing to fix. Not for you to decide if it should stack or not.

It works exactly as described.

I've played the game since the release and never had any problems with it.

It does not. It says You get +2, and not +2 for each ally. Like all the other teamwork feats. Else You´d have like +24 attack if You surround one guy with 6 people and outflank.

If it stacks - i guess monster tactician is nice, as he gives his teamwork feats to all his summons for basically infinite spell penetration. I don´t think that it is how it should work, while +2 is not really worth much imho, and outflank is probably still the single best teamwork feat because of +4 to attack and the attacks of opportunity - for everyone to get if You don´t have some special feat line...

[mbradtke]

Originally posted by Soul:

Originally posted by mbradtke:

thanks guys (:
so it seems it is working currently but it stacks, what is a bug, dont think it is intended to be honest, i think it is safe to say by now that if something works clearly different than the tooltip says it is a bug and not intented, also if u compare the strenght of allied caster to a normal +2 spell pen. feat and the fact that there is no other teamwork feat that stacks like this, we can be even more sure of it
that being said, i also think they are focusing more on detrimental bugs, what makes sense to be honest, there is also often the option not to exploit bugs by not using it,
though it seems they are trying to fix broken stuff, they fixed crane wing at last,
another good example would be the metamagic feat that lets you cast grease without affecting allies, even though it is supposed to only affect isntant damage spells

lol dont touch my selective grease.... :P

though im a little confused on the whole argument over the duration of the spell thing ppl say about it...

I mean if grease is wrong then I suppose things like web, glittterdust, sirocco.... would fall into that same category....

and only thing selective would be good for is things like fireball and lightning bolt....

I use selective metamagic for grease, web, glitterdust, fireball, lightning bolt, sirocco.... but if it is change to only affect fireball and lightning bolt... then I dont think it would be worth taking...

metamagic has always been nice to have but not must have that feat, with wraith they introduced new metamagic feats, including selective, in the current form selective is very good but i dont think it is broken, you can already avoid friendly fire with most aoe CC spells by carful positioning, there are more instant spells than fireball and lightning bolt though (: it is stronger than the regular metamagic feats and the tooltip doesnt match the desciption however

[Soul]

Originally posted by mbradtke:

Originally posted by Soul:

lol dont touch my selective grease.... :P

though im a little confused on the whole argument over the duration of the spell thing ppl say about it...

I mean if grease is wrong then I suppose things like web, glittterdust, sirocco.... would fall into that same category....

and only thing selective would be good for is things like fireball and lightning bolt....

I use selective metamagic for grease, web, glitterdust, fireball, lightning bolt, sirocco.... but if it is change to only affect fireball and lightning bolt... then I dont think it would be worth taking...

metamagic has always been nice to have but not must have that feat, with wraith they introduced new metamagic feats, including selective, in the current form selective is very good but i dont think it is broken, you can already avoid friendly fire with most aoe CC spells by carful positioning, there are more instant spells than fireball and lightning bolt though (: it is stronger than the regular metamagic feats and the tooltip doesnt match the desciption however

true there are other spells and such.... but I tend to play a lot with metamagic spells with my sorcerer.... using something like fireball and lightning bolt and adding selective metamagic to make em 4th level spells and selective and bolster to make them 5th level spells... for me going evocation using metamagics helps with boosting lower level spells to higher levels without the need to learn higher level spells... I mean between scorching ray and hellfire ray... I have all the single target damage I need with metamagic and those 2.... between bolster and empower I can increase scorching ray from 2-5 and hellfire from 6-9.... similar with lighting bolt 3-5 and chain lightning 6-9....

as for things like grease.... to be honest... game breaks more when I use it without selective metamagic..... lol... i'll end up having enemies climb up walls to get to me or walk below the map to reach me... once I start using selective grease though I dont have that problem anymore...