Warpriest or Cleric

[Etxxu]

Hi!

Some doubts:

1. I wanted to do a melee-oriented Cleric buffed like in BG2 and NWN2 with spells like divine power, shield faith, stoneskin, etcétera, but I start to think in Pathfinder its not viable on Core... Is It viable a melee-oriented Cleric without sub-class with spells like those?

2. I have just discovered the warpriest classs... Is It better a warpriest or the melee-oriented Cleric I have told above?

3. Or would It be better some lvls into fighter with Cleric?

4. Can I change class using the respec mechanic?

Thank you so much!

[Mr Fred]

Warpriest seem more in line with what you want and yes you can change class with a respec later on. You might also want to check battle oracle as a 2nd option before pure cleric.

[Schlumpsha]

Respec only works if you are on Normal difficulty or below.

Warpriest is somewhat similar in feeling to a Paladin with more flexibility and higher spell level (up to 6th spell level). Cleric reaches up to 9th spell level, but is more squishy. The Crusader archetype strikes somewhat of a balance between Cleric and Warpriest.

[Hogarth]

Warpriest is a better melee fighter than cleric if you're not going angel. If you plan to go angel mythic path, then crusader cleric will be significantly more powerful as a caster and still be a comparable melee fighter due to the merged spellbooks and powerful angel buffs/damage spells.

Crusader (cleric) especially as a subclass is superior for melee as you lose one spell slot each level but in exchange get 5 extra combat feats.

[Etxxu]

Originally posted by Mr Fred:

Warpriest seem more in line with what you want and yes you can change class with a respec later on. You might also want to check battle oracle as a 2nd option before pure cleric.

I will search for Oracle then too, thanks!

Originally posted by Schlumpsha:

Respec only works if you are on Normal difficulty or below.

Warpriest is somewhat similar in feeling to a Paladin with more flexibility and higher spell level (up to 6th spell level). Cleric reaches up to 9th spell level, but is more squishy. The Crusader archetype strikes somewhat of a balance between Cleric and Warpriest.

I didn't take crusader because It has just on domain and I wanted Protection and War domains

Originally posted by Hogarth:

Warpriest is a better melee fighter than cleric if you're not going angel. If you plan to go angel mythic path, then crusader cleric will be significantly more powerful as a caster and still be a comparable melee fighter due to the merged spellbooks and powerful angel buffs/damage spells.

I don't know about mythic patsh yet, I am early game haha
I am thinking about changing to Warpriest for the fast casting, but lose one Domain (free spell) Its a thing...



Also I have read that warpriest without buffs miss as much as a cleric without buffs (thats why I am thinking change to Warpriest) so why do you guys think about putting 1 or 2 fighter lvls? Is multiclass a good option in Pathfinder series?

[Hogarth]

Originally posted by Etxxu:

I didn't take crusader because It has just on domain and I wanted Protection and War domains

I tried a cleric with war domain recently, and it is terrible. The battle rage ability is a standard action, and only lightly buffs a nearby ally with a spell-like ability. This means if you try to use it an you're in melee range of an enemy, they get to make an opportunity attack which can hurt you and cancel your ability. To make domain abilities like these worth using you need to pick up domain zealot, and even then war is one of the weakest domains. Early on battle rage just feels terrible using a standard action instead of attacking to slightly buff an allies attack.

The domain spells are weak, the late level ones like power word: kill sound cool but they have to pass spell resistance and are quite low damage. Late game a bolt of justice can deal 30d10 unbuffed, and the enemy save roll only stops them from getting knocked prone.

[Schlumpsha]

Originally posted by Etxxu:

I didn't take crusader because It has just on domain and I wanted Protection and War domains

Once you unlock mythic ranks the game has a choice to receive an extra Domain for your Cleric. The mythic ability is called Impossible Domain. That way your potential Crusader still can get to enjoy both Protection and War.

[pete3great]

Why is everyone obsessed with melee clerics this week?

[Destroyner]

@pete3great
I think these topics are all coming from the same guy. Aside from my crusader question which I initially started asking like 4 months ago but stopped thinking about when BG3 released.

[AngelKnight]

Originally posted by pete3great:

Why is everyone obsessed with melee clerics this week?

They're fun and strong due to the mechanics of the game, also because probably they can be RP'd as something comparable to a Paladin but open to more alignment choices and interaction with their own god.

[Etxxu]

Originally posted by pete3great:

Why is everyone obsessed with melee clerics this week?

All the topics are from me

Originally posted by Hogarth:

Originally posted by Etxxu:

I didn't take crusader because It has just on domain and I wanted Protection and War domains

I tried a cleric with war domain recently, and it is terrible. The battle rage ability is a standard action, and only lightly buffs a nearby ally with a spell-like ability. This means if you try to use it an you're in melee range of an enemy, they get to make an opportunity attack which can hurt you and cancel your ability. To make domain abilities like these worth using you need to pick up domain zealot, and even then war is one of the weakest domains. Early on battle rage just feels terrible using a standard action instead of attacking to slightly buff an allies attack.

The domain spells are weak, the late level ones like power word: kill sound cool but they have to pass spell resistance and are quite low damage. Late game a bolt of justice can deal 30d10 unbuffed, and the enemy save roll only stops them from getting knocked prone.

Ok, so I don't mind so much now about losing a domain, but the BAB is still the same between Cleric, Crusader and Warpriest, so which one would be better? Crusader, Warpriest with fast casting or Cleric/Crusader with some levels of Fighter?

Another thing, are Glaives good? I am thinking when I respec (or restart game) taking the Deity that allows Glaive so I can attack futher (I don't like Godclaw because I like to be NG o CG, I took It just for flails)

[Etxxu]

Originally posted by AngelKnight:

Originally posted by pete3great:

Why is everyone obsessed with melee clerics this week?

They're fun and strong due to the mechanics of the game, also because probably they can be RP'd as something comparable to a Paladin but open to more alignment choices and interaction with their own god.

Exactly, and buffing himself with divine power, shield of faith, stoneskin, etcétera, is amazing haha

[Hogarth]

If you want a straightforward and powerful divine caster that can fight in melee, cast buff spells, and mid-late game cast hugely powerful damage spells then a crusader cleric or oracle following the angel path will do this. You don't even need to multiclass at all as that will lower your caster level, which affects your spell damage and duration. Things like the monk dip for extra AC are not necessary unless you're playing on unfair.

Mythic paths are hugely important to your build and how it plays, you don't need to plan out every level in advance but having an idea of what you want can be really helpful. Mythic paths are an extra 10 levels that provide extra powerful spells and abilities/feats, and even if you reject them (late game) you then get another 20 regular class levels as a Legend.

[Etxxu]

Originally posted by Hogarth:

If you want a straightforward and powerful divine caster that can fight in melee, cast buff spells, and mid-late game cast hugely powerful damage spells then a crusader cleric or oracle following the angel path will do this. You don't even need to multiclass at all as that will lower your caster level, which affects your spell damage and duration. Things like the monk dip for extra AC are not necessary unless you're playing on unfair.

Mythic paths are hugely important to your build and how it plays, you don't need to plan out every level in advance but having an idea of what you want can be really helpful. Mythic paths are an extra 10 levels that provide extra powerful spells and abilities/feats, and even if you reject them (late game) you then get another 20 regular class levels as a Legend.

Yes, I may change to crusader, are they decent (I am not saying good) melee fighters without buffs? Sonwhen I run out of spells can fight I little without restinga too much for corruption

Also, is It a good idea to change to weapons with longer range as Glaive ir better keep with one handed + shield?

Thanks!!!

[Hogarth]

Glaives are good. They allow you to fight in melee and at the same time be behind a tankier character. With domain zealot you can then use the touch-range domain abilities safely as a swift action, while stile taking a standard action each turn. In Act 2 you get a cleric (Sosiel) who is perfectly built for this.

One thing to keep in mind is the domains are not equally useful at all. There is a reason that community and animal domains are recommended so often. The pet from animal domain provides an extra companion that performs capably, especially early on. Guarded Hearth, the per-day ability from community is an incredible buff that provides a long lasting area competence bonus (meaning it stacks with basically everything) to attack equal to the clerics wisdom modifier. These are meaningful abilities that can change the direction of a tough fight.

[Etxxu]

Originally posted by Hogarth:

Glaives are good. They allow you to fight in melee and at the same time be behind a tankier character. With domain zealot you can then use the touch-range domain abilities safely as a swift action, while stile taking a standard action each turn. In Act 2 you get a cleric (Sosiel) who is perfectly built for this.

One thing to keep in mind is the domains are not equally useful at all. There is a reason that community and animal domains are recommended so often. The pet from animal domain provides an extra companion that performs capably, especially early on. Guarded Hearth, the per-day ability from community is an incredible buff that provides a long lasting area competence bonus (meaning it stacks with basically everything) to attack equal to the clerics wisdom modifier. These are meaningful abilities that can change the direction of a tough fight.

Yeah, and I have seen that Community has Communal Stoneskin, so I might take It!