can toybox let a lich keep their romance ?

[Peduvie ♡]

so, for context, this is my first playthrough of WotR. wanted to make an evil-adjacent spellcaster girlboss as my first character. the game ended up telling me i could be a lich and i thought "huh, that could fit my character pretty well".

met wenduag and really liked what she had going on, started romancing her and overall pretty happy with those interactions (even tho i wish some of the conversations had voice acting because i think hearing wenduag be vulnerable would be nice)

talked about all this to a pal who's played the game before and they told me going lich locks you out of romance paths at some point. which is entirely fine on a story perspective but i really wish i could've known that beforehand. i'm quite attached to this romance path (especially because it's the only one i feel interested in, compared to other party members who have flirted with me).

is there something i could do with toybox to let me continue romancing in spite of my mythic path ? (i saw that you could un-lock romances that are gender specific, so maybe it's possible ?)

Edit : i should add that i'm still in act 3, currently in ivory sanctum, so perhaps i'm not too far into the game to respec mythic path or something ? idk

[[SCZ]Celestrian]

read that there´s an event in which romanced characters (if more than one) force you to make a decision which one to keep / dump the rest. no idea when this event takes place.

at the start of act 5 (back from behind enemy lines) you are forced to kill your romanced npc to become a lich. i dont know if you have to end the romance before that objective shows up or if it´s doable after you get that quest. hard saves near the end of act 4 would be a good idea, bc you have to end the romance and then reactivate it via toybox (romance flag).

if havent seen any clear info from forums that this actually works properly.
thus you can take the risk and dump wendy, become lich and try the romance flag
or
decide to not become lich at the start of act 5
or
respec via respec mod away from lich-path.

that said, you can probably check the current toybox flags & numbers, end the relationship. renable the romance flag and see if it works (romance events that didnt yet happen (google em) and actually are triggered after doing these steps).
as said, hard saves are encouraged.
also no idea how this may affect the ending slides, etc, as i´m just at the beginning of act 4 with pretty much the same problem.

no definite answer here.

[Peduvie ♡]

Originally posted by SCZCelestrian:

read that there´s an event in which romanced characters (if more than one) force you to make a decision which one to keep / dump the rest. no idea when this event takes place.

at the start of act 5 (back from behind enemy lines) you are forced to kill your romanced npc to become a lich. i dont know if you have to end the romance before that objective shows up or if it´s doable after you get that quest. hard saves near the end of act 4 would be a good idea, bc you have to end the romance and then reactivate it via toybox (romance flag).

if havent seen any clear info from forums that this actually works properly.
thus you can take the risk and dump wendy, become lich and try the romance flag
or
decide to not become lich at the start of act 5
or
respec via respec mod away from lich-path.

that said, you can probably check the current toybox flags & numbers, end the relationship. renable the romance flag and see if it works (romance events that didnt yet happen (google em) and actually are triggered after doing these steps).
as said, hard saves are encouraged.
also no idea how this may affect the ending slides, etc, as i´m just at the beginning of act 4 with pretty much the same problem.

no definite answer here.

thank you very much for this insightful answer !

i'll try to remember saving before the end of act 4 and fiddle around with options.
also looked a bit into mythic path stuff and it checks out with your "decide not to become a lich" advice, will definitely think about it when it comes up.

[[SCZ]Celestrian]

as said, the best option i see is to test the dump&re-flag during act 3 while having some events down the line, tho it´s probably no 100% guarantee for it to work past act 4.

maybe a simple dump, re-flag and take wendy to your chambers will do, maybe skipping one romance scene during act 3 will have consequenes for act 5 for the better or worse.

personally i tried to keep camellia or sosiel "around" to properly finish them of via lich-path, however just as that one british police horse that encountered a rainbow crosswalk, i paniced and avoided the ghey, so now camellia (already replaced with a respeced ranged shaman staunton with an animal companion) is for the chop and wendy is for keeps (if the reflag works).

worst case: it doesnt work, thus reading the romance progression will have to do.
at least it´s not as weird/buggy as changing the mythic path completely (via respec) to something like angel, when your neighbors sit in a ziggurat, which probably will do unspeakable things to your savefile.

[Chronocide]

Originally posted by Peduvie ♡:

so, for context, this is my first playthrough of WotR. wanted to make an evil-adjacent spellcaster girlboss as my first character. the game ended up telling me i could be a lich and i thought "huh, that could fit my character pretty well".

met wenduag and really liked what she had going on, started romancing her and overall pretty happy with those interactions (even tho i wish some of the conversations had voice acting because i think hearing wenduag be vulnerable would be nice)

talked about all this to a pal who's played the game before and they told me going lich locks you out of romance paths at some point. which is entirely fine on a story perspective but i really wish i could've known that beforehand. i'm quite attached to this romance path (especially because it's the only one i feel interested in, compared to other party members who have flirted with me).

is there something i could do with toybox to let me continue romancing in spite of my mythic path ? (i saw that you could un-lock romances that are gender specific, so maybe it's possible ?)

Edit : i should add that i'm still in act 3, currently in ivory sanctum, so perhaps i'm not too far into the game to respec mythic path or something ? idk

Maybe not the lich path, but you can certainly be an evil character that summons undead without being on the lich path.

For undead party options.

-Dhamphir
-Death domain for clerics/inq/blight druid grants treated as undead at 8th character level
-Oracle at 1st level can select bones mystery and one of the mystery powers lets you count as undead.
-lich mythic path (eventually makes you count as undead)
-Might be a few others...

For the lich path, dunno what your character build is, but it's got some oddities.

First, when you become fully undead (mythic 7, I think), your con score goes away and your cha functions in it's place (for most things). All undead have this. As a lich character, this means that you should plan for this and not invest too much in con, while making a point to not use cha as a dump stat.

2nd, lich is an arcane caster, so spell failure via is a build concern.

3rd, lich can "combine spellbooks" (as in stack spellcaster levels) with only certain classes. Pretty sure it's limited to wizards, arcanists (but not the nature mage), witches, and sorcerers. Don't have to combine spell books, but something to plan for when designing your build.

4th lots of classes and spells and spell like abilities, damage undead when they "heal" without actually mentioning this in their description, while many others heal anything (including undead) while using the same wording. Lots of guesswork/experimentation for undead parties.

[Moldon]

My main character chose the necromancer path, but I built him as a lawful neutral "end justifies the means" so I'm planning to go with refusing to become a lich because there's a red line I don't want to cross. I don't know if that's a viable option though *shrugs*.

[[SCZ]Celestrian]

i have nothing further to add... except:


offtopic ramble:

Originally posted by Commissar:

My main character chose the necromancer path, but I built him as a lawful neutral "end justifies the means" so I'm planning to go with refusing to become a lich because there's a red line I don't want to cross. I don't know if that's a viable option though *shrugs*.

as everyone knows the discussion about allignment is an endless one (pointless? thats another dicussion...) coming from very different perspectives, while even sitting in one square of the allignment-grid there´re a full spectrum options&standpoints (unlike "body body" (to use the "modern audience" words)) which can be argued and justified, especially when it´s in purely written form, with another layer of steam-sh*tposting above that, but:

"end justifies the means" with an uncrossed red line just doesnt seem lawful to me at all, obviously dependend on what the character actually views as lawful (laws, rules, hierarchy, etc) and how that character respects those while being on foreign ground (if that´s the case), with the focus on necromancy in this perticular case (crusade, character not being aware that necromancy isnt required at all to be successfull (ignoring the "chosen one" aspect)), thus with that amount of low information given (tho since it´s a videogame-char so it´s quite possible no more information/background exists (while it´s questionable if more is required)).

however if this would be PnP and looking at the scenario (crusade of good, etc), i´m actually quite interested how you would argue in favor of necromancy while having the lawful-standpoint.
background to the question: PnP battle oracle that used necromancy to create necrocrafts
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/necrocraft/
(only materials from non-intelligent things (pretty much cows, since the almighty llama or camels werent available (powergaming)) (while trying to keep the bone-bros under cover as much as possible), pretty much accepting eternal damnation to "get the job done, overkill is acceptable, damn the consequences" (while eyeing to become undead (to get the "good" ending)). only red line was to not cause more to the city-state & it´s population (while being jokingly racist (statistics dont lie (even if i made up the statistics on the fly))) and i pretty much settled for neutral evil, which is worlds apart from lawful neutral.
from a scenario point, i´d say the basic morals, values, laws, etc are pretty much the same as in PF:wrath, while having a lot less fanatics around (exception being the strong pharasma presence).

so yeah... lawful. how come?

[Moldon]

Originally posted by SCZCelestrian:

so yeah... lawful. how come?

Well, in my head it does sound right at least.
In essence, the fight against demons has been going on for dozens of years, leaving countless bodies of valiant crusaders lying around. My character just pragmatically thought that those fallen warriors should continue the crusade alongside the living ones, as death is no reason to abandon your sacred vows.
Now why neutral : my character does this to win the crusade and close the World wound, he just uses an extreme method and yes, quite an evil one (from what I could gather, creating an undead consumes a bit of the deceased soul, and he's not particulary happy about it), but his intentions are honest and selfless. The end justifies the means.
Why lawful : maybe a bit harder to justify. He took extreme measures in a hopeless situation, but he still tries to do it by the book. He wants his troops disciplined and tries to instill loyalty around him. He chose to be a necromancer because he can create perfect soldiers: they don't drink or gamble, they don't fall under the demon's false promises, they just follow orders 24/7. No deviation, no distraction, only one mission given by the Queen, and it must be accomplished.

It has to be said that for me Regill is also more a lawful neutral than lawful evil. I really like what he says the first time you choose your mythic path, something along the lines of "good choice, undead soldiers are efficient".

[fox5s]

Originally posted by Commissar:

My main character chose the necromancer path, but I built him as a lawful neutral "end justifies the means" so I'm planning to go with refusing to become a lich because there's a red line I don't want to cross. I don't know if that's a viable option though *shrugs*.

You might enjoy this guide then:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2835657198

No need to commit atrocities or deny becoming a Lich. You can have it all! But people get confused and think you've done terrible things but haven't actually.

So, a normal day as *insert contentious political figure here* :3

[Moldon]

Originally posted by fox5s:

Originally posted by Commissar:

My main character chose the necromancer path, but I built him as a lawful neutral "end justifies the means" so I'm planning to go with refusing to become a lich because there's a red line I don't want to cross. I don't know if that's a viable option though *shrugs*.

You might enjoy this guide then:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2835657198

No need to commit atrocities or deny becoming a Lich. You can have it all! But people get confused and think you've done terrible things but haven't actually.

So, a normal day as *insert contentious political figure here* :3

Oh, that does seem really interesting, I will look into it, thanks!

[[SCZ]Celestrian]

Originally posted by Commissar:

Originally posted by SCZCelestrian:

so yeah... lawful. how come?

Well, in my head it does sound right at least.
In essence, the fight against demons has been going on for dozens of years, leaving countless bodies of valiant crusaders lying around. My character just pragmatically thought that those fallen warriors should continue the crusade alongside the living ones, as death is no reason to abandon your sacred vows.
Now why neutral : my character does this to win the crusade and close the World wound, he just uses an extreme method and yes, quite an evil one (from what I could gather, creating an undead consumes a bit of the deceased soul, and he's not particulary happy about it), but his intentions are honest and selfless. The end justifies the means.
Why lawful : maybe a bit harder to justify. He took extreme measures in a hopeless situation, but he still tries to do it by the book. He wants his troops disciplined and tries to instill loyalty around him. He chose to be a necromancer because he can create perfect soldiers: they don't drink or gamble, they don't fall under the demon's false promises, they just follow orders 24/7. No deviation, no distraction, only one mission given by the Queen, and it must be accomplished.

It has to be said that for me Regill is also more a lawful neutral than lawful evil. I really like what he says the first time you choose your mythic path, something along the lines of "good choice, undead soldiers are efficient".

i get the neutral part.
the lawful part probably makes sense if undead creatures wouldnt pretty much be strictly evil, gods of x-allignment exist (and can punch you in the face), "a soul" exists which will get sent somewhere, etc..
from a RL perspective, your argumentation makes somewhat sense to me, but from a lore side... i dont know, however i´m not a lore expert... on the case of allignment probably nobody is.

nah regill is pretty much evil. i wouldnt put leaving wounded behind to increase the chance of escape / survival, comrades getting butchered serving as a good example to not be an idiot, etc.

anyway thx for your answer