Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

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Earlier Legend Mythic Path?
Got to pretty much the "choose your form" part in Drezen and honestly...I don't like any of them. I like the Legend path but you apparently don't get that until VERY late in the game. It's a bit hypocritical that my PC character has to choose some form of god based form even if they are Atheist as their starting faith, kinda kills the play-style for me.

Is there any mods out there that can make Legend a choice after the battle at Drezen? Or am I going to be waiting for something that will never come?
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
ShayRey May 22, 2023 @ 11:42am 
Yeah, sorry, there ain't anything like that. No mod for it yet either. It makes more sense in story why Legend is a late game path though.
Schlumpsha May 22, 2023 @ 11:44am 
None.

There are some mods which allow for mythic abilities swapping. Or enabling the Legend's higher level cap to any mythic path. Or even have multiple mythic paths at once. But the subplots and mythic quests will still be those of your chosen main path.
Chronocide May 22, 2023 @ 11:50am 
Originally posted by Quincey Xarann:
Got to pretty much the "choose your form" part in Drezen and honestly...I don't like any of them. I like the Legend path but you apparently don't get that until VERY late in the game. It's a bit hypocritical that my PC character has to choose some form of god based form even if they are Atheist as their starting faith, kinda kills the play-style for me.

Is there any mods out there that can make Legend a choice after the battle at Drezen? Or am I going to be waiting for something that will never come?
Did you read the description for "Atheism" in the choice of religion? Pathfinder defines it differently than real life does.

Regarding the "choice" of mythic path. So, you could regard it as a choice your character is making, sure. But you could also see it as something forced upon them that they had no control over.

From a role playing standpoint, the Oracle doesn't choose their curse or mystery. Some unknown power just grants them powers that they might not even be fully aware of. You could treat the mythic path the same way. Sure, the player has a choice, but the character might not. And you could always just roll a die. Six paths, roll that d6 and choose.

Regarding Atheism, I'd argue the Aeon path fits the best. You can alter reality to what it "should be" which would naturally include putting the gods into the realm of fiction they belong in (from your character's perspective).
Quincey Xarann May 22, 2023 @ 12:52pm 
Yes I read the Atheism description and I know it's different than what's standard for real world. I still would prefer another alternative choice as I just don't like any of the mythic paths simply because I just don't like them or they add no benefit to how I play. None really add anything to my style of play or immerse me within the story.

For example: I'm playing a stealth based solo character which relies more on the witch of the veil's invisibility to handle fights with the use of scrolls and items to deal with the invisible spotting enemies. Taking litch gives me a skeleton companion which gets in the way more than anything. Azata, another companion. Angel, gives healing abilites but since I am also a dhampir they are pretty useless for me. Demon is more for a rager/ spellcaster, again useless.

All these choices really don't add much and I would rather just keep pumping into the actual classes like Legend would allow. Yet I have no other option but to be forced into one of them.
Raikon May 22, 2023 @ 12:58pm 
Most poeple take trickster before going legend anyways. Since it gives you crit multipleir and critical strike range
Lywelyn May 22, 2023 @ 1:19pm 
Originally posted by Quincey Xarann:
Got to pretty much the "choose your form" part in Drezen and honestly...I don't like any of them. I like the Legend path but you apparently don't get that until VERY late in the game. It's a bit hypocritical that my PC character has to choose some form of god based form even if they are Atheist as their starting faith, kinda kills the play-style for me.

if you read properly the description of what atheism in the universe of pathfinder is ,in the tooltip, you would find out and understand why you are wrong on this statement.
Schlumpsha May 22, 2023 @ 1:24pm 
Originally posted by Quincey Xarann:
For example: I'm playing a stealth based solo character which relies more on the witch of the veil's invisibility to handle fights with the use of scrolls and items to deal with the invisible spotting enemies. Taking litch gives me a skeleton companion which gets in the way more than anything. Azata, another companion. Angel, gives healing abilites but since I am also a dhampir they are pretty useless for me. Demon is more for a rager/ spellcaster, again useless.
Demon is perfect for your aspiring playstyle. With Aspect of Babau you get additional sneak attack damage. Aspect of Shadow Demon makes you incorporeal. And Aspect of Areshkagal makes any attack against you miss with a 50% probability. All absurdly useful for stealth focused characters like Witch of the Veil.
Quincey Xarann May 22, 2023 @ 2:29pm 
Originally posted by Lywelyn:
Originally posted by Quincey Xarann:
Got to pretty much the "choose your form" part in Drezen and honestly...I don't like any of them. I like the Legend path but you apparently don't get that until VERY late in the game. It's a bit hypocritical that my PC character has to choose some form of god based form even if they are Atheist as their starting faith, kinda kills the play-style for me.

if you read properly the description of what atheism in the universe of pathfinder is ,in the tooltip, you would find out and understand why you are wrong on this statement.

"On Golation, "atheism" usually denotes the belief that those beings commonly called "gods" are not worthy of the authority and reverence bestowed upon them by others. Atheists rarely doubt the existence of deities, and generally acknowledge that deities are very powerful beings, but deem them no more than that. Instead of gods, they tend to revere ideals such goodness or freedom, philosophies such as the Prophecies of Kalistrade or diabolism, or nothing in particular."

Instead of gods I am revering ideals like common decency, lack of faith in the actual gods themselves, whilst at the same time receiving godlike powers from an unknown source at the time in the game. Wanting to not be like the gods I have these ideals of I am still incorrect by your logic?

Backwards as ♥♥♥♥ logic bruh.
anfindel13 May 22, 2023 @ 3:31pm 
Originally posted by Quincey Xarann:
Originally posted by Lywelyn:

if you read properly the description of what atheism in the universe of pathfinder is ,in the tooltip, you would find out and understand why you are wrong on this statement.

"On Golation, "atheism" usually denotes the belief that those beings commonly called "gods" are not worthy of the authority and reverence bestowed upon them by others. Atheists rarely doubt the existence of deities, and generally acknowledge that deities are very powerful beings, but deem them no more than that. Instead of gods, they tend to revere ideals such goodness or freedom, philosophies such as the Prophecies of Kalistrade or diabolism, or nothing in particular."

Instead of gods I am revering ideals like common decency, lack of faith in the actual gods themselves, whilst at the same time receiving godlike powers from an unknown source at the time in the game. Wanting to not be like the gods I have these ideals of I am still incorrect by your logic?

Backwards as ♥♥♥♥ logic bruh.

If I understand correctly, by being atheistic, you (the PC) are not denying the existence of the gods, you don't believe them to be anything more than very powerful entities; and you are simply choosing to revere certain personal ideals, rather than a specific entity, god or gods, and through them, any ideals they espouse. So far as that goes, it all is fine.

But none of the specific mythic paths are in and of themselves making you a "God" or even suggested in any way the powers are representative of you being a "God" - at least through Chapter 4 - which encompasses the first 7 mythic levels. Liches, Swarms, Angels, Gold Dragons Tricksters, etc.. are NEVER claimed as Gods - they are incredibly powerful beings - and sometimes servants of Gods - but not gods themselves. While the mechanism that enabled the PC to gain these powers is unknown, nothing in those initial chapters suggests the PC is anything but a powerful, mortal being.

Any belief by your PC that by accepting the mythic powers and choosing a path he would be setting himself on the path to Godhood would not only be unsupported by events and knowledge obtained to that point, but wold be an utterly contradictory position for your PC to hold. In the face of the Storyteller, Terendelev, Queen Galfrey, Xanthir Vang, Hand of the Inheritor and so many others - all of whom are incredibly powerful, but do not claim to be Gods - I cannot see how your PC would see mythic paths as being representative of you being a God or even a God-ling. Playing in accordance with the knowledge and views of your PC, it wouldn't be until Chapter 5 - approximately the time you reach Mythic level 8, that your PC wold have any inkling that Godhood might even be a possible future outcome for you - particularly as you reject the entire notion that those powerful beings claiming to be gods are just powerful beings - period. And that is the same time your PC can decide to reject any path potentially leading to the Godhood your PC feels disbelief/antipathy for, and select the Legend path. And your PC clearly doesn't reject the notion of increasing power - the PC isn't refusing experience/normal levels, gaining equipment, gold, influence and so on, all forms of power.

Any belief otherwise would essentially involve meta gaming. And without foreknowledge that Mythic levels might lead to (or be due to) godhood, rejections of the power provided by those levels would be odd given the acceptance of all those other forms of power.
Quincey Xarann May 22, 2023 @ 7:39pm 
Originally posted by anfindel13:
Originally posted by Quincey Xarann:

"On Golation, "atheism" usually denotes the belief that those beings commonly called "gods" are not worthy of the authority and reverence bestowed upon them by others. Atheists rarely doubt the existence of deities, and generally acknowledge that deities are very powerful beings, but deem them no more than that. Instead of gods, they tend to revere ideals such goodness or freedom, philosophies such as the Prophecies of Kalistrade or diabolism, or nothing in particular."

Instead of gods I am revering ideals like common decency, lack of faith in the actual gods themselves, whilst at the same time receiving godlike powers from an unknown source at the time in the game. Wanting to not be like the gods I have these ideals of I am still incorrect by your logic?

Backwards as ♥♥♥♥ logic bruh.

If I understand correctly, by being atheistic, you (the PC) are not denying the existence of the gods, you don't believe them to be anything more than very powerful entities; and you are simply choosing to revere certain personal ideals, rather than a specific entity, god or gods, and through them, any ideals they espouse. So far as that goes, it all is fine.

But none of the specific mythic paths are in and of themselves making you a "God" or even suggested in any way the powers are representative of you being a "God" - at least through Chapter 4 - which encompasses the first 7 mythic levels. Liches, Swarms, Angels, Gold Dragons Tricksters, etc.. are NEVER claimed as Gods - they are incredibly powerful beings - and sometimes servants of Gods - but not gods themselves. While the mechanism that enabled the PC to gain these powers is unknown, nothing in those initial chapters suggests the PC is anything but a powerful, mortal being.

Any belief by your PC that by accepting the mythic powers and choosing a path he would be setting himself on the path to Godhood would not only be unsupported by events and knowledge obtained to that point, but wold be an utterly contradictory position for your PC to hold. In the face of the Storyteller, Terendelev, Queen Galfrey, Xanthir Vang, Hand of the Inheritor and so many others - all of whom are incredibly powerful, but do not claim to be Gods - I cannot see how your PC would see mythic paths as being representative of you being a God or even a God-ling. Playing in accordance with the knowledge and views of your PC, it wouldn't be until Chapter 5 - approximately the time you reach Mythic level 8, that your PC wold have any inkling that Godhood might even be a possible future outcome for you - particularly as you reject the entire notion that those powerful beings claiming to be gods are just powerful beings - period. And that is the same time your PC can decide to reject any path potentially leading to the Godhood your PC feels disbelief/antipathy for, and select the Legend path. And your PC clearly doesn't reject the notion of increasing power - the PC isn't refusing experience/normal levels, gaining equipment, gold, influence and so on, all forms of power.

Any belief otherwise would essentially involve meta gaming. And without foreknowledge that Mythic levels might lead to (or be due to) godhood, rejections of the power provided by those levels would be odd given the acceptance of all those other forms of power.


The acceptance of the paths before your choice at Drezen state:

"You are no longer a grain of sand resisting the countless armies of the abyss, you are something greater. Like Iomedae once rejected her humanity to ascend and gain divinity you are ready to take the first step on the path to gaining power."

A subtle hint that something big is happening and you are going off the beaten path of mortality. Aeons "possesses the power to correct abnormalities in the fabric of time and reality itself." That's pretty big in the god department with Trickster being a close second. All this info is told in game through the description, no meta gaming required. The closest thing that can come close is the 9th level wizard spell Time Stop or Wish, needing 17 levels of wizard.

In either case the atheist "usually denotes the belief that those beings commonly called "gods" are not worthy of the authority and reverence bestowed upon them by others."

Why would they want to become the very thing they have rejected since day one? To accept the powers and declare "I won't be like the other gods" is just hypocritical.
fox5s May 22, 2023 @ 7:58pm 
Just because you reject the idea that 'Gods' are worthy of the authority and reverence bestowed upon them does not mean you wouldn't want the power that they wield. Those are two separate concepts.

What you are saying is that you want your character to live by a minimalist philosophy and lifestyle. To put it another way, you are like a poor person saying that the rich don't deserve their money. It's easy to reject the concept of money when you have none. Few are actually able to do so once they actually get their hands on some amount of money.

As a "Pathfinder Atheist," it's easy to reject the concept of Godlike power when you have no comparable personal power. Few, including the main character, would turn down levels of personal power trust upon you like happens here.

None of that works in the context of the story they are telling in WotR. It's one of the VERY few things they actually define about your main character. You are not the type of person to completely reject power (exp, leveling, equipment/gold, etc as a previous poster mentioned) and still have the story able to move forward.

If you want a story like that, you can, just not here in WotR.
anfindel13 May 22, 2023 @ 9:52pm 
Originally posted by Quincey Xarann:
Originally posted by anfindel13:

If I understand correctly, by being atheistic, you (the PC) are not denying the existence of the gods, you don't believe them to be anything more than very powerful entities; and you are simply choosing to revere certain personal ideals, rather than a specific entity, god or gods, and through them, any ideals they espouse. So far as that goes, it all is fine.

But none of the specific mythic paths are in and of themselves making you a "God" or even suggested in any way the powers are representative of you being a "God" - at least through Chapter 4 - which encompasses the first 7 mythic levels. Liches, Swarms, Angels, Gold Dragons Tricksters, etc.. are NEVER claimed as Gods - they are incredibly powerful beings - and sometimes servants of Gods - but not gods themselves. While the mechanism that enabled the PC to gain these powers is unknown, nothing in those initial chapters suggests the PC is anything but a powerful, mortal being.

Any belief by your PC that by accepting the mythic powers and choosing a path he would be setting himself on the path to Godhood would not only be unsupported by events and knowledge obtained to that point, but wold be an utterly contradictory position for your PC to hold. In the face of the Storyteller, Terendelev, Queen Galfrey, Xanthir Vang, Hand of the Inheritor and so many others - all of whom are incredibly powerful, but do not claim to be Gods - I cannot see how your PC would see mythic paths as being representative of you being a God or even a God-ling. Playing in accordance with the knowledge and views of your PC, it wouldn't be until Chapter 5 - approximately the time you reach Mythic level 8, that your PC wold have any inkling that Godhood might even be a possible future outcome for you - particularly as you reject the entire notion that those powerful beings claiming to be gods are just powerful beings - period. And that is the same time your PC can decide to reject any path potentially leading to the Godhood your PC feels disbelief/antipathy for, and select the Legend path. And your PC clearly doesn't reject the notion of increasing power - the PC isn't refusing experience/normal levels, gaining equipment, gold, influence and so on, all forms of power.

Any belief otherwise would essentially involve meta gaming. And without foreknowledge that Mythic levels might lead to (or be due to) godhood, rejections of the power provided by those levels would be odd given the acceptance of all those other forms of power.


The acceptance of the paths before your choice at Drezen state:

"You are no longer a grain of sand resisting the countless armies of the abyss, you are something greater. Like Iomedae once rejected her humanity to ascend and gain divinity you are ready to take the first step on the path to gaining power."

A subtle hint that something big is happening and you are going off the beaten path of mortality. Aeons "possesses the power to correct abnormalities in the fabric of time and reality itself." That's pretty big in the god department with Trickster being a close second. All this info is told in game through the description, no meta gaming required. The closest thing that can come close is the 9th level wizard spell Time Stop or Wish, needing 17 levels of wizard.

In either case the atheist "usually denotes the belief that those beings commonly called "gods" are not worthy of the authority and reverence bestowed upon them by others."

Why would they want to become the very thing they have rejected since day one? To accept the powers and declare "I won't be like the other gods" is just hypocritical.


But this is NOT what you presented as your motivation - you provided that:

"On Golation, "atheism" usually denotes the belief that those beings commonly called "gods" are not worthy of the authority and reverence bestowed upon them by others. Atheists rarely doubt the existence of deities, and generally acknowledge that deities are very powerful beings, but deem them no more than that. Instead of gods, they tend to revere ideals such goodness or freedom, philosophies such as the Prophecies of Kalistrade or diabolism, or nothing in particular."

Instead of gods I am revering ideals like common decency, lack of faith in the actual gods themselves, whilst at the same time receiving godlike powers from an unknown source at the time in the game. Wanting to not be like the gods I have these ideals of I am still incorrect by your logic?

Backwards as ♥♥♥♥ logic bruh.

You are clearly stating that in your view, these are NOT gods - just powerful people. Yet you are NOT rejecting economic power (loot and gear) experiential power (increasing levels, skills, feats, abilities) military power (accepting the role of Commander and leadership of the Crusade) and so on. All these forms of power also serve to "cause others to bestow upon you authority and reverence" to one degree or another. So why would you accept all these other forms of power - while rejecting mythic paths? And bear in mind that no matter what you call it, "Legend" is still essentially a mythic path - you cannot exceed level 20 without it, and it still provides two levels of Mythic power.

If anything, you should be seeking a mod that caps you at level 20, and ensures you avoid gaining ANY mythic abilities at all. In other words, just an average, everyday Joe.
Quincey Xarann May 23, 2023 @ 2:02am 
The acquisition of economic power (loot and gear) are just tools of survival since I have to fight for said survival in a land full of demons and other hazards. You wouldn't go into a situation without the proper set of skills and tools would you?

Most physical based classes (fighter, rogue, etc) are just that, train yourself as any athlete would and you can be a pretty formidable opponent. Wizards are always going to be my favourite multi class as they are essentially the "study" class, requiring the actual understanding of how and when to use the magic of the world. Oracles (perhaps not enlightened philosopher but that's up for debate), Clerics, Warlocks, Witches all draw their power from a divine/deity source.

As for military power it's not something gained by choice, it's something you have to bear the responsibility for through the whole game simply because the ruling monarch said so. To go against the monarch would mean execution or probably thrown in with the Condemned, and we all know how well that's gone for certain characters in the game...

When I hit the castle management part of the game I was overwhelmed and it didn't feel like a game anymore, just more work. I feel there's a lack of choice in the game that could have been addressed for people that just want a standard style of play. I would happily go the capped 20 play style with no mythic paths if it were possible.
Schlumpsha May 23, 2023 @ 2:14am 
Originally posted by Quincey Xarann:
When I hit the castle management part of the game I was overwhelmed and it didn't feel like a game anymore, just more work. I feel there's a lack of choice in the game that could have been addressed for people that just want a standard style of play. I would happily go the capped 20 play style with no mythic paths if it were possible.
Not having to deal with mythic paths is kind of the selling point of the Through the Ashes DLC (and its upcoming sequel). Treasure of the Midnight Isles supports this playstyle as well during its separate mini campaign. But not via the implemented main campaign version of the DLC.

The mythic ability swapper mod I spoke earlier of also allows to play the game without mythic path powers. But mythic quests will still be present that way.
mrstrider1 May 23, 2023 @ 5:14am 
If you believe that the Gods are just Very Powerful People. Excepting a Mythic path and it's powers is not becoming a God. it's just becoming another one of those Very Powerful People, And you aren't pushing people to worship you like they do. Which fully fits into Atheism as it's presented in Golarion. you are using outside knowledge and player thinking and forcing it onto your character as a reason why you don't want it. instead of actually considering what they would think it is. Which is their own Power manifesting and Making them just another one of those Powerful Not actually Gods beings.

You wouldn't even be the first to approach it this way. Several of the Gods started from this exact starting point. A couple of them are the arguably the most powerful Gods in existence... That don't actually act like Typical gods necessarily... like a certain Two Faced God which doesn't actually interact with his followers, doesn't ask to be worshiped at all, and nobody is sure how or why his powers are granted to his Priests and the like, who was jsut a mortal that somehow through his own power gained the enlightenment of knowledge of all the universe (which is arguably the result of his Own Mythic Path that was never granted to him by any other God).
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Date Posted: May 22, 2023 @ 11:22am
Posts: 15