Lich Path

[Duder]

I'm wondering what those of you that have done it have based your build on.
Currently I'm a vanilla sorcerer with arcane bloodline, however I'm going to respec since picked a spell I don't want.
I'm playing on Hard.

[TOLYAN JIGAN]

Originally posted by Babbles:

Originally posted by TOLYAN JIGAN:

Your stats aura will work for you, but you get -2 to stats because of sacrifice. Anyway it's a net +.

Are you sure about that? I don't think your Lich aura works for you ...

You need to fully transform into an undead lich first. Before you can use a lich spell to become undead.

Originally posted by Raikon:

Lich doesn't have to take the - score though. Simply tell Zach that you don't want to lose your vitality.

But then you have to beg him.

[Raikon]

Yes, unfortunately that's true. I don't like that part either.

[Duder]

Originally posted by Babbles:

Originally posted by Duder:

So the Lich doesn't get any ability score bonus then?

Nope :(

That's a bit disappointing because I know for sure in DnD you got 18 strength

[fox5s]

Originally posted by Duder:

That's a bit disappointing because I know for sure in DnD you got 18 strength

IIRC the stats aren't from the template per se. Monsters don't technically just get the stats listed in most cases. Those are generally considered the average stats for a monster as though they had assigned a 10 or 11 to those stats. Really it's all abstract and the GM can assign whatever they want.

Lich is a bit weird compared to other monsters. It's actually a template you apply to a base creature. The one presented in the Monster Manual is just an example Lich generated from a base Human Sorc (or Wiz) using the standard point buy array for stats (probably dumping the 8 or less into Con because it gets eaten by the template). Your GM could generate whatever they want and just apply the Lich template. I think it has some specific requirements but Str was not one of them.

Or at least this is all true for D&D 3.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder 1E.

This Owlcat custom Mythic Lich? They aren't following any of that. So, there's no obligation to even give you any bonus Str from the template.

[Duder]

Originally posted by fox5s:

Originally posted by Duder:

That's a bit disappointing because I know for sure in DnD you got 18 strength

IIRC the stats aren't from the template per se. Monsters don't technically just get the stats listed in most cases. Those are generally considered the average stats for a monster as though they had assigned a 10 or 11 to those stats. Really it's all abstract and the GM can assign whatever they want.

Lich is a bit weird compared to other monsters. It's actually a template you apply to a base creature. The one presented in the Monster Manual is just an example Lich generated from a base Human Sorc (or Wiz) using the standard point buy array for stats (probably dumping the 8 or less into Con because it gets eaten by the template). Your GM could generate whatever they want and just apply the Lich template. I think it has some specific requirements but Str was not one of them.

Or at least this is all true for D&D 3.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder 1E.

This Owlcat custom Mythic Lich? They aren't following any of that. So, there's no obligation to even give you any bonus Str from the template.

I'm actually thinking Dnd 2nd edition lol
I think they got a penalty to their DEX too

[TOLYAN JIGAN]

Originally posted by Duder:

Originally posted by Babbles:

Nope :(

That's a bit disappointing because I know for sure in DnD you got 18 strength

Lich will get str, dex and cha +6 stats bonuses and with a cloak it's +10 total.

[Chronocide]

Been tinkering on this path...

I tried a lich kineticist recently. That Death of Elements to make the blasts deal negative energy was interesting. Still runs into classic kineticist spell penetration issues, but my party was negative energy forcused, so while it didn't heal them, it didn't hurt them either and I could just include them in the AoE without problems.

Ascendant element (negative energy) would have ruined that, so maybe not worth further tinkering.

Anyway, it was interesting.

Haven't built one since kingmaker, but I did have a character that mainly spammed magic missile. Heightened spell to put it in every page of my spell book. At 4th or so, add some quickened ones too. The lich has that Whithering Spell that could make it deal ability damage too... Build is really rather boring, but it's pretty easy to implement (especially if you obtain magic missile via the loremaster, so any class can have it).

Also kinda want to try a monk lich.

[Duder]

Originally posted by TOLYAN JIGAN:

Originally posted by Duder:

That's a bit disappointing because I know for sure in DnD you got 18 strength

Lich will get str, dex and cha +6 stats bonuses and with a cloak it's +10 total.

Wait now I'm confused. I was just told Lich doesn't get any ability bonus

[Raikon]

It used to give the mc bonuses. So many people will say that it does. It was patched out with the inevitable dlc.

[Duder]

Originally posted by Raikon:

It used to give the mc bonuses. So many people will say that it does. It was patched out with the inevitable dlc.

Speaking of which I have to complete Excess. Not looking forward to it, don't much care for this DLC
It's like kingmaker in the end, just want to get it over with already

[mrstrider1]

Originally posted by Duder:

Originally posted by Babbles:

Nope :(

That's a bit disappointing because I know for sure in DnD you got 18 strength

you also became an NPC in most versions of DnD besides 3/3.5 I think.

[Babbles]

Originally posted by TOLYAN JIGAN:

Originally posted by Babbles:

Are you sure about that? I don't think your Lich aura works for you ...

You need to fully transform into an undead lich first. Before you can use a lich spell to become undead.

Originally posted by Raikon:

Lich doesn't have to take the - score though. Simply tell Zach that you don't want to lose your vitality.

But then you have to beg him.

Uhm, in my pic you are a level 7 lich - which is a level 9 mythic - you are fully transformed.

[Chronocide]

Found an interesting option.

Okay, so Oracle 8, Sorcerer 1, Mythic Theurge 1.

Shouldn't work, but it does because the lich makes the sorcerer 1 able to cast 2nd level+ arcane spells. So that build is a 10th level character (3 lich levels) who is casting as if 9th level oracle and 5th level sorcerer.

And you can further take nature oracle for the CHA to AC option (replaces dex as AC stat).

Don't have a full build yet, but it's interesting.

[fox5s]

Hmm... that's interesting. I'll test that real quick via Inevitable Excess.

[Raikon]

I'm not saying it doesn't work in the enivitable dlc, I'm saying when the inevitable dlc became live, the patch they introduced with it, changed it.