Pointblank shot and Precise Shot for Ray Caster

[SunlightPrince]

Howdy, I'm playing on Hard mode and was wondering if PBS and Precise Shot is necessary for a ray caster. It's difficult to give Woljif spell pen and the necessary feats, but his utility with the abundance of spells and dmg through SA ray spells in 3ES\7Exp Wiz\ 10 AT. I really like it despite the jank of 3 Eldritch Scoundrel being 2 wasted levels.

Do Enemy Touch AC get so high that these 2 feats are necessary? Buffing already gets me a hit chance of 60-70% at low lvls in Act 2, do I need it in the future?

[fauxpas]

Yes ... those two feats are must have for everyone that needs to make a ranged attack into melee, touch or otherwise.

[MjKorz]

Back when True Strike did not expire after a single ray/ranged touch attack, it wasn't worth it.

Now it's a must, especially after the Midnight Isles and Inevitable Excess introduced bosses with touch AC in the 100 range.

[Soul]

i'd say think of them as 2 feats for the price of a +5 to attack with rays within 30 feet... +4 for things further than 30... for any enemy engaged in close combat...

and compare it to say what you could get with gear that might help with other areas like spell pen.... there are some spell pen gear available like robes... and some mythic paths and buffs that can help party with spell pen...

Azata life bonding friendship for instance with allied spellcaster gives +2 spell pen for each ally in range... meaning a party of 7 (6 members and Aivu) would give +14 spell penetration to everyone... which would be like having all your party members take spell pen, greater spell pen and mythic spell pen...

[SunlightPrince]

Ah, okay then, I'll prioritize PBS and PS then. I thought since the Touch AC for enemies so far has been pretty low, it would be a trend like in Kingmaker. Thanks a bunch! I guess I'll go PBS, PS, Spell Pen, Evocation and so on.

Then follow up question, planning on restarting, should I go Exploiter Wizard or Elemental Specialist.

Exploiter gives me better spell dc and caster lvls, but less spells total, 2 arcane exploits,
Elemental Spec gives me a school spell,. +3 to total dmg thru intense spells, all spell into Cold Damage so I can get Ascendant Cold for all spells, snowball, hellfire, scorching, polar ray...

[Soul]

Originally posted by SunlightPrince:

Ah, okay then, I'll prioritize PBS and PS then. I thought since the Touch AC for enemies so far has been pretty low, it would be a trend like in Kingmaker. Thanks a bunch! I guess I'll go PBS, PS, Spell Pen, Evocation and so on.

Then follow up question, planning on restarting, should I go Exploiter Wizard or Elemental Specialist.

Exploiter gives me better spell dc and caster lvls, but less spells total, 2 arcane exploits,
Elemental Spec gives me a school spell,. +3 to total dmg thru intense spells, all spell into Cold Damage so I can get Ascendant Cold for all spells, snowball, hellfire, scorching, polar ray...

if your going for blasting with rays... i'd say elemental for the conversion of all spells to same type your gonna ascend element to.... otherwise your damage is gonna be blocked by resistances and immunities....

[MjKorz]

Ray casters don't care about spell DC or CL as long as you get 19 on your hellfire ray (Spell Specialization works for this purpose), exploiter is completely pointless.

ES allows you to convert hellfire ray into pure fire and multiply the whole damage by 1.5 via flame curse, not just half. You can do the same with a sorcerer elemental fire bloodline, but it's best to use the 3 bloodlines you get on triple draconic red+brass+gold for bonus fire damage per die.

In short, ES is best, but you must not level ES above level 14. Builds like ES10/x-bloodedSorc1/EK9 or ES9/x-bloodedSorc1/EK10 or ES10/x-bloodedSorc1/Loremaster9 work best for ray casting.

[SunlightPrince]

ahh... Good point, I keep thinking DC is king for all wizards, thanks for the advice evryone!

[MjKorz]

Spell DC matters only for dedicated DC casters, dedicated AoE damage dealers and DC caster + AoE damage dealer Evoker hybrid.

[Shadow of Zero]

So point blank master is always needed for ray casters given their typically low bab and difficulty getting stuff like greater weapon focus to help with hit chance. Precise shot I would recommend 9-10 times, because the foes you really want them hitting like say dragons with their crazy AC and ♥♥♥♥ touch AC are either going towards your front line, or your frontline is going towards them; where as usually the people with good touch AC like enemy archers, aren't near your melee regularly at the start of a fight.

The only time I would consider not taking precise shot is if the character using it was say a melee magus and has it for targets they can't get to that turn, since the use rate would be so seldom that it isn't worth the investment (Still doesn't make it a bad feat, but if you use it 2 rounds every adventuring day there are better choices to pick from)

[Razer]

Originally posted by Shadow of Zero:

So point blank master is always needed for ray casters given their typically low bab and difficulty getting stuff like greater weapon focus to help with hit chance. Precise shot I would recommend 9-10 times, because the foes you really want them hitting like say dragons with their crazy AC and ♥♥♥♥ touch AC are either going towards your front line, or your frontline is going towards them; where as usually the people with good touch AC like enemy archers, aren't near your melee regularly at the start of a fight.

The only time I would consider not taking precise shot is if the character using it was say a melee magus and has it for targets they can't get to that turn, since the use rate would be so seldom that it isn't worth the investment (Still doesn't make it a bad feat, but if you use it 2 rounds every adventuring day there are better choices to pick from)

nice necro

[Faust]

The problems encountered by ray casters:

-You have to succeed in your throw to hit.
So you need a correct bab, good dexterity and/or multiclass eldricht knight (to boost your bab even face: touch CA on unfair) and therefore taking the two gifts of this thread is strongly advised.

-You have to pass the target's magic resistance.
So taking gifts like Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration and/or Mythic Spell penetration (problematic especially at the beginning of the game).

-Increase the critical (the range, the multiplier).
So it is always useful if you are not trickster to take at least 3 levels in loremaster, the lines do not stack anymore and it is preferable to have a good bab so a sorcerer lineage is no longer an obligation (also thanks to the new metamagic: Intensified).

On the other hand, having another character with 2 levels of shaman for flame curse is strongly recommended.

-Using metamagic is mandatory (if you really want to hurt).

Metamagic: Bolster, Empower, Maximize, Intensified.
And also mythical ones (Favorite Metamagic: Bolster, etc.).
But also metamagic wands associated to complete at each level with a metamagic that you have not taken, for maximum damage.

Of course a cleric and/or witch and/or shaman is always useful for the magnigances with luck
if you are not azata.

ElementalSpecialist/Loremaster/EldritchKnight/Sorcecer are very good classes to compose your ray caster (be careful to reach CL19 to maximize Hellfire Ray) and especially do not exceed level 15 with ElementalSpecialist (because you will lose damage by not staying focused on a pure total of fire damage).

[Foca]

consider also take some levels in loremaster (u need skill focus arcana or world feat and a metamagic feat in order to get this prestige class) wich will continue advance your spell book progression and through his bonus feat u can take Precise Shot (bonus combat feat) without taking
pointblank shot, and improved improved critical ray (the trickster feat through rougue trick feat), also the cleric spell spell divine power

[Soul]

Originally posted by Faust:

The problems encountered by ray casters:

-You have to succeed in your throw to hit.
So you need a correct bab, good dexterity and/or multiclass eldricht knight (to boost your bab even face: touch CA on unfair) and therefore taking the two gifts of this thread is strongly advised.

-You have to pass the target's magic resistance.
So taking gifts like Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration and/or Mythic Spell penetration (problematic especially at the beginning of the game).

-Increase the critical (the range, the multiplier).
So it is always useful if you are not trickster to take at least 3 levels in loremaster, the lines do not stack anymore and it is preferable to have a good bab so a sorcerer lineage is no longer an obligation (also thanks to the new metamagic: Intensified).

On the other hand, having another character with 2 levels of shaman for flame curse is strongly recommended.

-Using metamagic is mandatory (if you really want to hurt).

Metamagic: Bolster, Empower, Maximize, Intensified.
And also mythical ones (Favorite Metamagic: Bolster, etc.).
But also metamagic wands associated to complete at each level with a metamagic that you have not taken, for maximum damage.

Of course a cleric and/or witch and/or shaman is always useful for the magnigances with luck
if you are not azata.

ElementalSpecialist/Loremaster/EldritchKnight/Sorcecer are very good classes to compose your ray caster (be careful to reach CL19 to maximize Hellfire Ray) and especially do not exceed level 15 with ElementalSpecialist (because you will lose damage by not staying focused on a pure total of fire damage).

you can get by early game with snowball....

its a conjuration spell and doesnt use spell resistance check... so for me thats my bread and butter damage spell for Act 1 and 2 till I get the gear for spell resistance.... plus with metamagic as a sorcerer I can slot it on more spell ranks....

plus.... those gloves from the tavern in Act 1... they work on level 1 spells that are increased through metamagic.... so a snowball increased to say level 2 with bolster will still be affected by the gloves giving some extra damage... that stacks with draconic bloodline as well....

[Faust]

I totally agree with your advice for loremaster and the snowball at the beginning.

After I did not go into details otherwise it would be necessary to make a guide or a tutorial.

Just a clarification loremaster I say 3 levels but you can take more it was just for:
science of the critical with warrior
science of science of the critical with thief.

You can also take the gifts of combats with Eldricht knight.

After it was just to guide people wanting to test this type of character and avoid them worries by taking gifts not necessarily useful.

Very powerful build by the way (personally I always create a specialized character in Touch CA).