low level "magical" class, attack?

[Valtaya]

I am not that familiar with the Pathfinder ruleset... so I am struggling with "any" "magical" class to perform somewhat uselfull in battle at low level. Usualy (D&D) I would go with cantrips (like Fire Bolt or Ray of Frost), as they are more usefull than melee or ranged (light crossbow) ... but in pathfinder its 1d3... that is a joke... I have just a few offensive "good" spells, but I am saving them, as resting is also somewhat of a joke... only to regain a few spells 17h resttime... so any good tips?

[NdNd]

Some caster classes are half and half like magus, meaning even if you don't have spells you can still do decent damage with weapons. Then comes witch. You can use witch's hexes without worry and they are very usefull (like sleep slumber etc). If you are playing sorcerer, wizard, etc type full casters, then there isn't much you can do at first lvls. Get some spells like grease which would give you great advantage over enemy and kill them with your weapon.

This will go on till the end of act 1: later on you will be as usefull as other classes and much later you will be invincible.

[HydraLord]

Hi there.

For offensive spells no, the first levels more support than damage seems the way...spells like grease, daze, enlarge person, sleep, magic weapon, might be of more use to you for the first stages of the game. Also check demoralize ability, i find it quite helpful at the start of the game.

Hope this help
Have fun

[Valtaya]

Thanks

[reidj062]

At low levels, your spellcasters aren't going to be DPS machines, no. But they can spam cantrips indefintely. And those cantrips resolve vs. touch attacks, which at low levels, means they can hit most enemies pretty reliably even if the damage output isn't great. Also, if you take point blank shot and precise shot, you increase cantrip damage by 25%.

You should be regaining all your spells at rest time. And rest times tend to get better after the first act. Also, wizards with arcane bonds can cast one of their spells twice by going to their spellbook icon and selecting the arcane bond to recharge a spell.

Divine zap is also useful for divine spellcasters, as it's not elemental damage and therefore isn't subject to elemental resistances. There are definitely some demons that will prove frustrating at low levels, as demons usually have elemental resistances. You should only have arcane spellcasters using crossbows as a last resort, however, when you're out of spells and your ray of frost or acid splash won't get past resistances.

Keep in mind it's a party based system. So sometimes spellcasters will carry and the day, and sometimes it will be martials or rogues. It's not Skryim where you can have one character who can do almost everything. My only complaint is that sometimes Owlcat takes that to extremes, where either your spellcasters or martials may as well be sitting there with their thumbs up their butts, for all the good they are doing.

[Soul]

I play a sorcerer.... and early game I use both cantrips and crossbow combination.... with point blank shot and precise shot early on I can hit things with both better... also I have a dragon bloodline and elemental bloodline usually at start or by Act 2... elemental bloodline allows me to convert any elemental spell into my elemental bloodline type... and dragon bloodline gives me +1 damage per die of my dragonic bloodline's element....

also in Act 1 in the tavern is a pair of gloves from barkeep that can give level 1 spells and below with an extra +1 per die too... which stacks with the bloodline.... AND the gloves also trigger for level 1 spells with metamagic applied like bolster, empowered, and maximize....

so right at level 5 you can make a bolstered snowball deal 5d6 + 1 per die from dragon + 1 per die from gloves +2 per die from bolstered... = 5d6 + 20 damage with 20 splash damage...

also if you can convert an element if your specializing in an element with bloodlines.... use acid splash... its a conjuration spell BUT it is only damaging cantrip that bypasses spell resistance... and if you can pick up ascendent element you'd bypass the elemental resistance as well... which with 1 bloodline and gloves would turn the cantrip from 1-3 damage to a 3-5 damage....

but early game spellcasters shine best with CC pretty much... selective grease for instance is king for certain fights... or glitterdust to reveal enemies...

[.//slayer]

Divine zap is also useful for divine spellcasters, as it's not elemental damage and therefore isn't subject to elemental resistances.

Divine Zap is a fantastic cantrip because, unlike rays, it does not require an attack roll to hit. You can take down some pretty powerful enemies early on by kiting and zapping them to death.

[mk11]

At low-level your fighters aren't doing much either so you are quite likely to have the odd opponent left with 1 or 2 hit points. Use a cantrip to finish them off. Don't forget Disrupt Undead if you run into Shadows or similar undead.

[Valtaya]

ok so basicaly I am doing it right :D

[GunStarX]

Wich is the best caster class for the first half of the game imo. You have infinite use of hexes, which have some very strong effects that can be upheld indefinitely with cackle

[Razer]

Don't expect your caster to come online until Act 3, you'll just be using CC and buffs till then. You can make the sorcerer work early if you make a specific build. And the Kineticist gets really potent too, but basically all of them suck in the early game. Give them a (cross)bow and hope they hit something. In act 3-4 is when they start becoming more than just a paper weight really. DnD and Pathfinder are like this. Mages are completely useless early, but become near Gods the later the game goes. Thing is, the early game is the toughest of the entire game. It isn't until Act 3 that you start overcoming the pointless stat bloat that Owlcat throws at you for no reason.

[pete3great]

Originally posted by Razer:

Don't expect your caster to come online until Act 3, you'll just be using CC and buffs till then.

Pure caster, maybe, but if you're headed for a sneak attack caster/arcane trickster, your ray of frost can get surprisingly potent early (at least on core and below).

[Razer]

Originally posted by pete3great:

Originally posted by Razer:

Don't expect your caster to come online until Act 3, you'll just be using CC and buffs till then.

Pure caster, maybe, but if you're headed for a sneak attack caster/arcane trickster, your ray of frost can get surprisingly potent early (at least on core and below).

I'm confused. You mean "Surprise Spells" from the Arcane Trickster class? You don't get that until level 15 or something. How is that early game? That's Act 4.

[Soul]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by pete3great:

Pure caster, maybe, but if you're headed for a sneak attack caster/arcane trickster, your ray of frost can get surprisingly potent early (at least on core and below).

I'm confused. You mean "Surprise Spells" from the Arcane Trickster class? You don't get that until level 15 or something. How is that early game? That's Act 4.

think they were just meaning the whole sneak attack thing being added to spells.... not surprise spells feature.... like normal sneak attack or sense vitals spell can apply to spells that require range touch attacks such as cantrips... surprise spell feature that your talking about just allows ALL damage spells to qualify for sneak attacks...

[Razer]

Originally posted by Soul:

Originally posted by Razer:

I'm confused. You mean "Surprise Spells" from the Arcane Trickster class? You don't get that until level 15 or something. How is that early game? That's Act 4.

think they were just meaning the whole sneak attack thing being added to spells.... not surprise spells feature.... like normal sneak attack or sense vitals spell can apply to spells that require range touch attacks such as cantrips... surprise spell feature that your talking about just allows ALL damage spells to qualify for sneak attacks...

So which ability allows sneak attack to be applied to spells? Or is that just another Pathfinder thing that they broke after coming from DnD 3.5?

[Soul]

Originally posted by Razer:

Don't expect your caster to come online until Act 3, you'll just be using CC and buffs till then. You can make the sorcerer work early if you make a specific build. And the Kineticist gets really potent too, but basically all of them suck in the early game. Give them a (cross)bow and hope they hit something. In act 3-4 is when they start becoming more than just a paper weight really. DnD and Pathfinder are like this. Mages are completely useless early, but become near Gods the later the game goes. Thing is, the early game is the toughest of the entire game. It isn't until Act 3 that you start overcoming the pointless stat bloat that Owlcat throws at you for no reason.

my sorcerer gets pretty good I think once Act 2 hits for me... and I start getting metamagic rods it starts ramping up... early Act 2 I can already cast invisibility on my sorcerer and position myself for spell specialization lightning bolts by level 7 so level 9 lightning bolts... with empower rods... and by the time I reach Drezen my sorcerer has 2 lesser empower rods and 1 lesser quicken rod... could use a lesser maximize rod too but I carry tankard and covenant with sorcerer early game so belt full lol...

that means enemies with spell resistance I can do a quicken empowered snowball followed by a bolstered, empowered snowball and usually ends up taking either a huge chunk from enemy or straight up kill em...