Does most of prestige class feel like blunt copy from previous dnd games?

[UIE First Citizen]

When i was playing nwn 1 and nwn 2 for the first time, i was so exited when getting access to prestige classes.
They were game changer, mostly op.
In nwn 2 we get so many unique prestige classes, the selection of prestige classes here look so lame.
Base classes feel much developed then some of prestige ones.
For example dragon disciple was a big deal in nwn 1.
Here dragon disciple doesn't fit either lore wise or character wise.
When i choose hellknight prestige class there are tons of bonus conversations when you are one compared to others classes.
Same goes with dhampir, awesome race but hardly has any unique conversation options.

[.//slayer]

For example dragon disciple was a big deal in nwn 1.

Still a big deal in WotR, too, because what other class lets you get 3 spellcaster levels and +4 STR for a 4 level investment? It's a great option for a gish.

But as far as unique interactions go, they are mostly reserved for mythic paths, not prestige classes. So, I guess mythics are the true prestige classes of WotR.

[Ishan451]

UIE First Citizen lähetti viestin:

Does most of prestige class feel like blunt copy from previous dnd games?

Of course? They are supposed to be....

Pathfinder 1e is a response to WotC botching things with DnD 4th edition. Pathfinder 1e used the OGL and made improvements on DnD 3.5 the community wanted. And because Paizo's Pathfinder was a lot more popular than DnD 4... WotC went and improved on Pathfinder 1e direction with DnD 5... forcing Paizo to go yet again in a slightly different direction with Pathfinder 2e.

The fact that Pathfinder is basically just DnD 3.5+ is also why Golarion is pretty much just Faerun with other names for things. Like the Underdark are called Darklands and Ravenloft, instead of being a pocket dimension, is basically Ustalav.

There are only a very few things that DnD has that you won't find in Pathfinder, like the Displacer Beast and Beholder, due to copyright reasons.

[UIE First Citizen]

.//slayer lähetti viestin:

For example dragon disciple was a big deal in nwn 1.

Still a big deal in WotR, too, because what other class lets you get 3 spellcaster levels and +4 STR for a 4 level investment? It's a great option for a gish.

But as far as unique interactions go, they are mostly reserved for mythic paths, not prestige classes. So, I guess mythics are the true prestige classes of WotR.

It just feels like they copied bunch of classes from nwn and left them as they were there.
I like when they create unique classes for pathfinder settings aka archetypes of base class.
I wished they would changed those prestige classes to fit more with pathfinder playstyle/settings.
Bonus stats are not big deal since i can change my stats using toybox or lower difficulty if enemiies are too hard.
For example while playing original campaign for nwn 2 you become member of neverwinter nine, and there is a prestige class that corresponds with that. Same goes with shadow thief of amn.
For me the most important thing is gameplay. Damage can be changed using cheats/ mods etc.
Another example is arcane archer from neverwinter nights. If i remember that it well, you could cast fireball as a arrow atack, it was awesome.
I was choosing red dragon disciple in nwn because you could get wings in that way.

[UIE First Citizen]

Ishan451 lähetti viestin:

UIE First Citizen lähetti viestin:

Does most of prestige class feel like blunt copy from previous dnd games?

Of course? They are supposed to be....

Pathfinder 1e is a response to WotC botching things with DnD 4th edition. Pathfinder 1e used the OGL and made improvements on DnD 3.5 the community wanted. And because Paizo's Pathfinder was a lot more popular than DnD 4... WotC went and improved on Pathfinder 1e direction with DnD 5... forcing Paizo to go yet again in a slightly different direction with Pathfinder 2e.

The fact that Pathfinder is basically just DnD 3.5+ is also why Golarion is pretty much just Faerun with other names for things. Like the Underdark are called Darklands and Ravenloft, instead of being a pocket dimension, is basically Ustalav.

There are only a very few things that DnD has that you won't find in Pathfinder, like the Displacer Beast and Beholder, due to copyright reasons.

And yet it doesn't have awesome classes that nwn had.
I am speaking of Arcane archer, shadowdancer, shadowthief, red wizard.
But it would seems a lot of prestige classes mechanics were implemented into mythic paths like palemaster, purple dragon knight etc.

[Stink Bug]

UIE First Citizen lähetti viestin:

.//slayer lähetti viestin:

Still a big deal in WotR, too, because what other class lets you get 3 spellcaster levels and +4 STR for a 4 level investment? It's a great option for a gish.

But as far as unique interactions go, they are mostly reserved for mythic paths, not prestige classes. So, I guess mythics are the true prestige classes of WotR.

It just feels like they copied bunch of classes from nwn and left them as they were there.
I like when they create unique classes for pathfinder settings aka archetypes of base class.
I wished they would changed those prestige classes to fit more with pathfinder playstyle/settings.
Bonus stats are not big deal since i can change my stats using toybox or lower difficulty if enemiies are too hard.
For example while playing original campaign for nwn 2 you become member of neverwinter nine, and there is a prestige class that corresponds with that. Same goes with shadow thief of amn.
For me the most important thing is gameplay. Damage can be changed using cheats/ mods etc.
Another example is arcane archer from neverwinter nights. If i remember that it well, you could cast fireball as a arrow atack, it was awesome.
I was choosing red dragon disciple in nwn because you could get wings in that way.

You can get wings with pathfinder’s Dragon Disicple too, and so much more. A permanent bite attack. Spell progression (so sorcs and bards don’t have to sacrifice all their spell levels to go DD). Draconic bloodline abilities. The ability to turn into a dragon before level 10!

Pathfinder’s prestige classes might not be as showy on the surface as dnd 3.x’s were in NWN1/2, but that’s because Pathfinder’s base classes are so much more interesting (for the most part) for all 20 levels. And even those “cool” prestige classes like palemaster and arcane archer were implemented poorly compared to their tabletop counterparts. Eldritch Archer magus in pathfinder for instance can use their entire spell list with their magic archery features, not just a few select spells as for NWN’s. Pathfinder’s Arcane Trickster can sneak attack with ray/touch spells, gets
a ranged trap disarming feature, and can eventually sneak attack with ANY spell for a few times a day. Again, much better than the NWN implementation.

[Ishan451]

UIE First Citizen lähetti viestin:

I am speaking of Arcane archer, shadowdancer, shadowthief, red wizard.

Not in the video game, no. But very much so in the Roleplaying Game. Though Red Wizard is kinda an Arcanist.

In Pathfinder the closet thing to Red Wizards are the Thassalonian Runelords, when it comes to the setting. They wear Black instead of Red but you get the whole deal including Tatoo magic. And in terms of Classes the closet would be an Arcanist.

Edit: Oh and the Arcane Archer is called Eldritch Archer. Definitely a Magus Subtype in the Kingmaker game by Owlcat... not sure about WotR /edit

UIE First Citizen lähetti viestin:

But it would seems a lot of prestige classes mechanics were implemented into mythic paths like palemaster, purple dragon knight etc.

Mythic Paths in this game are kinda unique to this game. Also the Video game is based on the Roleplaying System... it does not contain everything the Roleplaying System offers.

[hilburnashua]

UIE First Citizen lähetti viestin:

Ishan451 lähetti viestin:

Of course? They are supposed to be....

Pathfinder 1e is a response to WotC botching things with DnD 4th edition. Pathfinder 1e used the OGL and made improvements on DnD 3.5 the community wanted. And because Paizo's Pathfinder was a lot more popular than DnD 4... WotC went and improved on Pathfinder 1e direction with DnD 5... forcing Paizo to go yet again in a slightly different direction with Pathfinder 2e.

The fact that Pathfinder is basically just DnD 3.5+ is also why Golarion is pretty much just Faerun with other names for things. Like the Underdark are called Darklands and Ravenloft, instead of being a pocket dimension, is basically Ustalav.

There are only a very few things that DnD has that you won't find in Pathfinder, like the Displacer Beast and Beholder, due to copyright reasons.

And yet it doesn't have awesome classes that nwn had.
I am speaking of Arcane archer, shadowdancer, shadowthief, red wizard.
But it would seems a lot of prestige classes mechanics were implemented into mythic paths like palemaster, purple dragon knight etc.

Pathfinder does indeed have the Arcane Archer and Shadowdancer prestige classes, Owlcat never implimented them. I would have loved for them to put in the Holy Vindicator prestige class and it would have been perfect for the theme of the campaign. Maybe they didn't want to deal with the Stigmata or the Divine Wrath/Retribution abilities. Loremaster is much stronger in WotR then it is in tabletop.

Most of the prestige classes in tabletop have always felt a bit bleh to me, but I do love the Mammoth Riders.

[hilburnashua]

Ishan451 lähetti viestin:

Edit: Oh and the Arcane Archer is called Eldritch Archer. Definitely a Magus Subtype in the Kingmaker game by Owlcat... not sure about WotR

No, Arcane Archers exist in Pathfinder tabletop as do Eldritch Archers. Although Eldritch Archer is the perfect base class for Arcane Archer.