hillor and the spinner of nightmares. .

[Icedfate]

i don't get it.

i go to her lair and i have 2 options.
fight her and kill her
or
try to talk sense to her

if i tlak sense to her, she gives me her locket and then i'm supposed to go back to hilor

when i go back to him, no matter what dialogue i choose, always ends with them killing each other.


so my choices are kill her

or

let them both kill each other.


there's no satisfactory ending to this.

and i know, the loading screen says "sometimes you just can't save everyone", but why even give the player the option to try and talk sense into them if it doesn't work?
meanwhile, hilor is definitely guilty of something, my aeon gaze reveals it, but i'm unable to discover what it is or pass judgement on him.
and it's really his friggen fault, because she does see reason and tries to back off and speak rational, but he just doesn't let her. he just goes nuts on her and they end up killing each other.

is this how it's supposed to be or did i do something wrong?

edit : oh yeah, and the quest then gets marked as "failed", so i dunno. ks it even possible to "not fail" this quest?

[forkofspite]

There are other outcomes, but I think you are generally correct in that there's no "satisfactory ending". However, it is possible to succeed at the quest. I suspect that you ended up failing because you didn't find the diary in Act 4, but I can't say for certain.

[Icedfate]

yeah, i was doing some digging and i keep seeing stuff about this diary and i don't remember finding a diary. I went through all my books, 3 times.

i have a book titled "hilor and the spinner of nightmares" and when i read it, it says "i learned something new" but there's nothing new under my abilties anywhere.
and i still have the same result. they kill each other.

everyone else who asks about this quest seems to have already found the diary.
and for some reason, their quest is titled "chasing the spinner of nightmares", while mine is called "traces of shadows" and when i look up "traces of shadows " it says it was an act 4 quest , but the quest never even activated until i saved hilor in act 5.

i mean, act 4 was a mess, walking around back and forth through confusing walkways and stuff, but i don't see how i could have missed this.
i was in the ten thousand delights and i helped the other succubus take control of it and then there was another succubus in there sent me up to the roof to deal with a demon and then they were both in cahoots.

and then i'm hearing about more stuff i was supposed to do in there but none of the npcs would talk to me except the new madame who was just a vendor. .

unless it was someone in the fleshmarkets and i screwed up because i killed them all. that's the only thing i can think of.


someone in another thread says "the good result" is when you just kill her, but then those dialogues options are all marked with lawful and evil, and the way it has me speaking is like hulrun or a hellknight just not listening to anything she says and just executing her for being the spinner of nightmares without even listening to her side of the story, it's the "lawful stupid" option and i refuse to beleive that it the "correct" option.
meanwhile the dialogue option to try and fix things is marked as "good" which leads me to beleive that there is a "good" ending to this.

unless it's like that girl and the butterfly parable someone tossed at me, when you try to do something good and end up causing something worse to happen instead. . .

and then i reverted my save to back when i'm talking to her and i choose the attack option and the game literally makes me pick attack 3 times before actuallletting me attack and each time, she pleads with me and tries to be diplomatic and this just feels "wrong" to kill her.
but then i dunno, because if what hilor says is true about her and she really did do all that horrible ♥♥♥♥. . .i dunno who to beleive and then people on reddit said this quest sux anyway, no good loot and not even an ending slide so ♥♥♥♥ it

[Korelis]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

unless it was someone in the fleshmarkets and i screwed up because i killed them all. that's the only thing i can think of.

That's it. There's a Pathfinder venture captain there who can help you out with mercenaries and retraining, and he gives you the quest.

[Icedfate]

i dunno why they give you the option to kill the slave traders if it breaks questlines. . .

[Korelis]

You're given a whole lot of options that break questlines though, all throughout the game. I like that the game doesn't railroad you onto the correct path.

[Icedfate]

okay. . .
so, i just went ahead and fought her and killed her and now there's a special "aeon" dislogue with hilor.
i guess this is how it has to be now.

maybe i can do it differently on the next run


edit : but then, if i do that, he leaves and now there's nobody to hire mercs from. . which is weird , because if i let them kill each other, a different guy comes in and takes hilor's place and lets me hire mercs again.


i get it, "consequences for your actions" and all that, but yeah, you make a choice early in the game, only to find out 40 hours later that it caused you to fail some other quest that doesn't even seem logically connected before it even began. . .


edit 2 : and ya know what, frigate. the "best" outcome is the one that lets me get the loot and still hire mercs, so there, let them kill each other. they are both crappy people

[Korelis]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

but then, if i do that, he leaves and now there's nobody to hire mercs from. . which is weird , because if i let them kill each other, a different guy comes in and takes hilor's place and lets me hire mercs again.

You do get the services back before the final battle, so you aren't locked out of mercenaries and retraining permanently. It definitely sucks that he's gone until then though, especially if you do the quest early on in act 5.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

i dunno why they give you the option to kill the slave traders if it breaks questlines. . .

Because you can? I can't think of anything more realistic than how you royally screw over your DM at the table because your party kills this one NPC before it even had the chance to do its job and now the DM is like "Well...there goes that whole plot line" and then has to think of how to get you back on track.

edit: heck, if Seelah can call out how people just monologue their whole life backstory in 5 minutes of meeting each other, I don't see why you can't have another companion that's always trying to adopt some sort of monster that the whole party knows is a bad idea, but then does it anyway (or maybe that's Aivu, but somehow Aivu just was a legit awesome pet)

[Crusader993]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

i get it, "consequences for your actions" and all that, but yeah, you make a choice early in the game, only to find out 40 hours later that it caused you to fail some other quest that doesn't even seem logically connected before it even began. . .

I'm very glad it is because the alternative would be a reason for me not to play WotR at all.

There are two ways: either you take the player by the hand like an underage child and guide him safely through the game (unfortunately there are more than enough games like that out there), or you take the role-playing seriously and at least respect it rudimentary free will and gives the player a certain freedom of choice.

The latter then means that you can do a lot (including illogical things) in the game, but then you are confronted with the consequences of your actions. We learn from that and maybe do it differently in a new run by thinking more about possible consequences of a decision before you just click anywhere. ;)

[Raven]

Originally posted by Crusader993:

I'm very glad it is because the alternative would be a reason for me not to play WotR at all.

There are two ways: either you take the player by the hand like an underage child and guide him safely through the game (unfortunately there are more than enough games like that out there), or you take the role-playing seriously and at least respect it rudimentary free will and gives the player a certain freedom of choice.

The latter then means that you can do a lot (including illogical things) in the game, but then you are confronted with the consequences of your actions. We learn from that and maybe do it differently in a new run by thinking more about possible consequences of a decision before you just click anywhere. ;)

kind of a not-on-topic, but a bit of an parallel, I find it really annoying that there is things you have to re-ask to open up some dialogue trees properly. Like if you don't ask who someone is, even though they literally *JUST* told you who they are, you can't access some follow up dialogue. Same goes with some options being asking about clarification for some things. like...I find myself picking same dialogue choices again just so because I have no idea if the game truly is registering that I know and understand something and if I do/don't know about it will hit me 40 hours in.

edit, fast example just off the top of my head:

Minago: "It's me, Minago!"
Staunton: "Filthy wench, Minago!"
Beth: "Minago!"
*one scene later*
Mc: "Who are you?"
^I forget if this is necessary to show off the sword option or what it was, but its necessary to make some option appear in the dialogue.

[Icedfate]

yeah, okay, i get it that it might have been a mistake to just kill all the slave traders. . .but they were fricken slave traders!

i really don't see the connection between the slave traders and Hilor anyway.

although, the guy that shows up after hilor and spinner kill each other tells me he came from the abyss fleshmarkets and the "merc" i'm recruiting from him are freed slaves.


look, the devs aren't obligated to give me the outcome i want. . but if i'm not gonna get the outcome i want, i'm gonna pick the outcome that gives me the most "stuff"

[Crusader993]

Originally posted by Raven:

kind of a not-on-topic, but a bit of an parallel, I find it really annoying that there is things you have to re-ask to open up some dialogue trees properly. Like if you don't ask who someone is, even though they literally *JUST* told you who they are, you can't access some follow up dialogue. Same goes with some options being asking about clarification for some things. like...I find myself picking same dialogue choices again just so because I have no idea if the game truly is registering that I know and understand something and if I do/don't know about it will hit me 40 hours in.

edit, fast example just off the top of my head:

Minago: "It's me, Minago!"
Staunton: "Filthy wench, Minago!"
Beth: "Minago!"
*one scene later*
Mc: "Who are you?"
^I forget if this is necessary to show off the sword option or what it was, but its necessary to make some option appear in the dialogue.

Thanks for this advice.

To be honest, I didn't even know that, even though I've already done more than 900 hours. Then I must have missed a lot. I'll keep an eye on it from today and keep trying the options to be on the safe side.

[Crusader993]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

yeah, okay, i get it that it might have been a mistake to just kill all the slave traders. . .but they were fricken slave traders!

i really don't see the connection between the slave traders and Hilor anyway.

You probably not only killed the slavers, but also the scout who is employed in the same association as Hilor. This scout is also on the slave market and brings you a message from Hilor that is important for the quest.

[Icedfate]

Originally posted by Crusader993:

Originally posted by Icedfate:

yeah, okay, i get it that it might have been a mistake to just kill all the slave traders. . .but they were fricken slave traders!

i really don't see the connection between the slave traders and Hilor anyway.

You probably not only killed the slavers, but also the scout who is employed in the same association as Hilor. This scout is also on the slave market and brings you a message from Hilor that is important for the quest.

okay. next time. i'll make sure i clear all the questlines before killing all the traders

[Crusader993]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

okay. next time. i'll make sure i clear all the questlines before killing all the traders :repoop::dip:

On my very first run, I killed Daeran because that option was presented to me in an (evil) conversation option. :P

It wasn't until later that I realized that you lose a lot of the game (Story/Quests) by doing that. In many cases, unless you really want to do it for roleplaying reasons, there is little or no point in killing someone through the conversation options.