Drovier builds?

[MOK]

Having played CRPG's a while, and Kingmaker, and good fluency with Pathfinder, I'm aware that there's a lot of ways to build(or choose classes) that make your character pretty miserable, or pretty fun. I have a knack for choices or RP gimmicks that make me miserable. So I figure I better ask for help early.

I've rolled a Drovier with no real melee capacity, intending to play pure caster. I was attracted to the subclass because i don't like shapeshifting or summoning. I'm only in chapter 1, but I can see that for a while I will have very little capacity to contribute.

I'm interested in hearing from people that have played Drovier, or are pretty confident about how to use or build them to be effective. I've done some searches for Drovier builds but there's no good results.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[MjKorz]

Since no one has any better suggestions, I'm going to give you some build advice you probably won't like.

Pure caster druids are absolutely horrible and I would strongly advise you against playing one. Druids have no bonus feats and any proper caster build of any type (ray, DC, AoE damage) is super feat intensive and the Druid spell list is absolutely horrible. Even if you wanted to play a pure Druid caster you'd be heavily encouraged to multiclass into Loremaster in order to obtain arcane spells, because Druids are mainly Evocation/Conjuration/Transmutation casters who lack some of the most powerful spells from those schools.

Again, pure caster druid is a very bad idea, there is a very good reason Druids get medium BAB progression and a pet on top of their spells and even with all of that no one considers their entire kit anywhere close to OP and you want to simply discard 2/3 of the kit.

If you want to make a non-meme, actually powerful druid, you can focus on melee and multiclass into Loremaster. With two loremaster secrets you can grab Transformation for full BAB and Improved Improved Critical via Rogue Secret -> Combat Trick for an additionally expanded critical threat range. Owlcat nerfed the Loremaster by preventing players from taking Trickster critical feats via the combat feat secret, but left the ability to take them via the rogue secret. Why? Ask them, not me.

With a weapon that has an inherent critical threat range of 18-20 (any Falchion or Grave Singer), Improved Critical (improves threat range to 15-20), Improved Improved Critical (improves threat range to 13-20), and Flawless Belt of Physical Perfection +8 (obtained in chapter 4 AFTER beating the Inevitable Darkness secret boss from the Inevitable Excess DLC on higher difficulties) you will achieve a critical threat range of 11-20 which means that by using Touch of Law (cleric Law domain ability obtainable on Sosiel via Impossible Domain: Law) on your Druid/Loremaster you can guarantee criticals since your d20 attack roll will be set to precisely 11.

Since Drovier gets access to Aspect of the Wolf which allows you to trip enemies as a swift action 1/round, you can also invest into Trip feats and Fury's Fall with decent STR+DEX (but you should still be STR-based). Ignore any and all defense, mount your pet and just rely on the pet's AC.

With Greater Trip that provokes attacks of opportunity on a successful trip attempt you'd be getting extra attacks in.

Since you will be critting on every hit, you will also be provoking attacks of opportunity on the target from your party members.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

There is one incredibly powerful way to play Druid pure caster, and that's to go for the Angel mythic route. As a divine caster with full spell progression, you can get the incredibly powerful merged spellbook, which will let you just blast everything with the grossly strong Storm of Justice.

The downside to this is that you won't really feel like a Druid any more. The gameplay of Cleric, Oracle, and Druid at that point really just becomes "use the angel powers lmao" so I can understand why you might not want to do it. It's certainly a very powerful way to play, though.

But yeah otherwise just wait around until level 14 and get Aspect of the Wolf, then trip everything constantly with Legendary Proportions on all your allies.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

There is one incredibly powerful way to play Druid pure caster, and that's to go for the Angel mythic route.

You'll just end up being a Walmart Shaman. Shaman can turn its hexes into secrets which allow the shaman to take metamagics. With the human bonus feat a shaman can take skill focus, which would enable him to qualify for Loremaster and reserve all 10 of his base feats to be feed to the insatiable EA Conjuration beast. The hex choices would then be used to grab at least 4 metamagics such as bolster, empower, maximize, selective. With loremaster levels a shaman can acquire additional conjuration spells such as grease, glitterdust, vinetrap, chains of light. Shaman also gets better initiative due to having a hare familiar. The difference between a shaman and a druid angel is the ability of your bolt/storm of justice to actually prone things by beating their saves, something the shaman is much better at. Besides, the shaman can perform the forbidden art of picking a flame spirit for the flame curse hex which opens a whole new level of self-synergy via Eye of the Sun.

Meanwhile, a pure caster druid can't level Loremaster beyond level 4, if he wishes to have a max level pet and doesn't get any bonus metamagics, making the entire build pretty much pointless since it's massively inferior. At least as a fighter/mage the druid can do something decently well.

[MOK]

JFC. I really have a gift for getting myself into these predicaments.

So.... You're saying that if not for the mythic path stuff that's custom gimmick to this particular title, the druid is a bad class in general, if played as a dedicated caster? I haven't got the experience to agree or disagree, but it's a bit unnerving and feels extreme. Still, the point you made about feats is clear.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by MOK:

JFC. I really have a gift for getting myself into these predicaments.

So.... You're saying that if not for the mythic path stuff that's custom gimmick to this particular title, the druid is a bad class in general, if played as a dedicated caster? I haven't got the experience to agree or disagree, but it's a bit unnerving and feels extreme. Still, the point you made about feats is clear.

Like I said, the druid has 3 parts to his kit: melee capability, the pet and spellcasting. None of these parts are good on their own and the idea is that you're supposed to mix them up and somehow come out as something greater than the sum of your parts, except it doesn't work in this game, because WotR is a game that massively favors specialization.

[Belegc]

Since you are not interested in summoning or shapeshifting another option apart from the excellent suggestions above is to buff the party and your pet and maybe a bit of debuffing.

you do have access to some strong buffs via Transmutation spells (every combination of casting class and mythic path can reach Transmutation CL25 needed for 24H buffs by a combination of items and mythic feats as long as you have a minimum of CL17 or so. since its your first playthrough I don't want to spoil it for you).

Abjuration is another possibility since it benefits from high CL as well. (its not a problem to focus on 2 or more schools). Greater dispel magic is strong and useful especially with the dispelling feats.

Spells like Acid Maw, Magic fang, barkskin, natural rhythm, echolocation, blessing of the salamander, Legendary Proportions and the rest are all good buffs. you do however miss spells such as Haste and Slow (even though you have slowing mud) but that is where dipping to Loremaster can assist.

you might want to reconsider regarding summoning - together with your pet you can summon various other creatures through spells and items. there are also items in the game for such a playstyle. Augment summoning and Superior summoning require Spell focus Conjuration though.

[Schlumpsha]

The Feyspeaker is catering to pure casters the most from the available Druid archetypes present in WotR. Mainly because of the additional Enchantment and Illusion spells to its spellbook (albeit at one spell level higher than usual for the spell in question). Plus the archetype loses spontaneous summoning and has a slower wild shaping progression to boot. Both solidifying the pure caster style even more. But from the sounds of it you aren't interested in either anyway. So no real loss for your aimed playstyle.

Owning The Last Sarkorians DLC will also help your spell slinging Druid out with a couple of new ones to cast as well. Some of which are pretty darn good for non-mythic spells.

[Hunny]

Also depends what difficulty you plan on playing on. Full caster druid on normal should work I think.

[Sophis]

Originally posted by Mossa:

Also depends what difficulty you plan on playing on. Full caster druid on normal should work I think.

This is the most important thing to take into consideration.

Normal? It's fine.

Core? Still fine. Your spellbook is quite limited in terms of damage spells, so you won't be contributing much damage. But still viable for a support/cc caster though, since you want the Drovier.

Hard or higher? Not going to be really useful as anything other than a buff bot, and even for that you can find better options.

This, of course, is not taking into consideration Mythic paths. If you pick Angel, you win the game just by using Angel spells lol. Azata or Aeon might be a best fit for a support/cc caster, which is probably what you want from this class.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Sophis:

If you pick Angel, you win the game just by using Angel spells lol

Angel spells are completely irrelevant:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2971470706

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

Yes yes, MjKorz we get it, you're a munchkin who wants to suck Nenio's toes.

Point is you need no build knowledge or gear or anything at all really to "haha angel go brr". McLaren being better than Ferrari ain't particularly useful when a person just wants to know if their l'il city scooter can park.

[MOK]

Thanks everyone for the discussion.

1) I had the strong impression going in that the class really wanted you to dip in and out of melee with wildshape, but like in the prior title and other titles like PoE, I've never felt potent doing that. Like you said, specialization gets you farther. With all these prior titles establishing this pattern, I'm surprised that the druid is much the same across them all, with regard to wildshape. Its why i picked Drovier, to not get stuck in that mediocre gimmick.

2) As suggested, I'll have to reconsider summoning to plug the gap. I had assumed that I'd be doing a lot of buffing, but also assumed I'd have a bit of nukes, but most of all a few strong control options that would keep my attention. I assumed that, if played right, control would be more potent than just offensive capacity, allowing the druid to be a viable pure caster. Whether or not that pans out, early game I just don't have options, so I'll have to summon. I've literally been spamming cantrips through fights. It's pathetic.

3) I'm starting on Core, and frankly wanted to push it higher but I kinda knew that this kind of topic would be the big hangup. It's almost like a separate topic from difficulty. Stepping on landmines in pursuit of a character concept, based on what I thought were relateively safe assumptions, was a constant when I was playing Kingmaker as well. I'm confident my companions can drag my ass through the campaign but I'd rather go through it as if I was capable of one notch harder.

[MOK]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

Yes yes, MjKorz we get it, you're a munchkin who wants to suck Nenio's toes.

Point is you need no build knowledge or gear or anything at all really to "haha angel go brr". McLaren being better than Ferrari ain't particularly useful when a person just wants to know if their l'il city scooter can park.

LOL

But alright, shifting the question a bit.

After this discussion I'm curious. Setting my original idea aside, blank slate with any druid no limitations, and ignoring mythic paths, what are some examples of powerful ways to go? What makes them comparatively powerful, and why? Because earlier points in this discussion makes it seem that this is a troubled class.

[MOK]

Ah shoot thought of another question.

Since you can't crap out buffs for every single trash fight, nor summon every fight, and this is not a melee character, what can I do to actually contribute in between bosses?

I'm thinking about picking up potion crafting to be able to offer something. Is this viable or will it be insufficient as well? Assuming that I want to do better than just eke by.

I figure I'm gonna invest in some wands when I find them. But I'm still early and am only assuming that I can get some.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by MOK:

After this discussion I'm curious. Setting my original idea aside, blank slate with any druid no limitations, and ignoring mythic paths, what are some examples of powerful ways to go? What makes them comparatively powerful, and why? Because earlier points in this discussion makes it seem that this is a troubled class.

There are no "comparatively powerful" ways to go with druid. The 3rd ed ruleset is all about specialisation and the druid is a class built to be as generalist as possible. You'll never get close in terms of efficacy to any specialised class.

That being said from what I understand of 3rd ed druid is that the most powerful way to play it is to go hard into wildshape melee with the spellcasting as a secondary utility, focusing on wildshapes with innate CC such as Dog/Wolf and shambling mound and taking dips such as monk to get you functional AC.

This game specifically also has animal companions being absolute brick walls that can also put out decent damage, so speccing in to your animal companion along with your melee ends up being good, especially if you have a lot of other frontliners so you can get teamwork feats popping off decently and the like.