Nenio and Bull's Strength

[Raven]

I can't say for sure if this is a bug because I use mods, so I'm not going to say "bug" but I can't figure out why when I use bull strength (mass) and Neno's strength goes to 7>9. She's getting +2 instead of +4, but I notice that she has an extra +2 in intelligence with fox cunning on her as well. (going from 22>28 with a +4 from fox cunning)

Can someone see if this is the case without mods or something or explain why she's getting additional points into her intelligence?


edit: trying to clarify for people to understand easier (no equipment)

Strength:
https://i.imgur.com/CaW6Iwm.png

Intelligence:
https://i.imgur.com/HSrYio8.png

[Cutlass Jack]

Is she wearing a +2 strength belt already? Or other str enhancing item that doesn't stack with the spell? That's the only thing I can think of.

Not sure about the Int buff though. I know she gets a racial int buff, but you'd see that even without the spell I think.

[Sophis]

Those spells give you a +4 on the total number, which is equal to +2 on the modifier since you get one for every 2 levels. So if she is going 7 - 9 on the modifier, that's correct.

I don't understand the Intelligence part. She is getting INT from Bull's Strength? Or is this extra 2 points coming from somewhere else?

[hilburnashua]

That sounds like a bug coming from your mods, I have never seen anything like that.

[Korelis]

If you move your cursor over the stat it will show you all the modifiers you have so you can see how it all adds up.

[Icedfate]

if you are wearing a belt of +2 strength ad use bull's strength then your strength only goes up by 2 more.

nenio's base strength is 5. bulk stregth would bring it up to 9. if she had 7 before using bull strength then you were likely getting a +2 enhancement bonus from something and then using bull overwrote that +2 enhancement with a +4 enhancement

bonuses are separated into different "types"
the game will tell you if it's a "morale bonus" or an "enhancement" bonus or "cooking" or "profane" , "circumstance" , "insight". most of these don't stack. it just takes the highest one.

the bull,cat,fox,etc spells are enhancement bonuses, they don't stack with belts and hats which are also enhancement bonuses.

for nenio, though, you can find draven's hat which is a profane bonus, which does stack with fox cunning.

similarly, shield of faith divine spell is a deflection bonus, does not stack with a ring of protections.

shield spell arcane magic does not stack with a shield in the offhand, both are shield bonuses.

barkskin is a "natural AC" bonus and noes not stack with an amulet of natural AC.

some bonuses do stack. dodge bonuses stack, and i think insight bonuses stack and circumstance bonuses stack, but those are not comon and it's not likely to come up.

also, luck bonus, sacred bonus exist.

oddly, for some reason, bestow grace, a paladin spell adds a sacred bonus to saving throws and it stacks with the normal bonus that the paladin gets, so casting on themself pretty much doubles the boost they get to their saving throws.

edit : what i'm referring to is seelah's "divine grace" ability that adds her charisma bonus to saving throws, it just says it's a "bonus" with no "type" attached to it, while bestow grace is a sacred bonus , so they stack with each other.

also guarded hearth is a sacred bonus, if you have a community domain caster, this ability stacks with just about anything.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Cutlass Jack:

Is she wearing a +2 strength belt already? Or other str enhancing item that doesn't stack with the spell? That's the only thing I can think of.

Not sure about the Int buff though. I know she gets a racial int buff, but you'd see that even without the spell I think.

No other equipment that would conflict with it

Originally posted by Sophis:

Those spells give you a +4 on the total number, which is equal to +2 on the modifier since you get one for every 2 levels. So if she is going 7 - 9 on the modifier, that's correct.

I don't understand the Intelligence part. She is getting INT from Bull's Strength? Or is this extra 2 points coming from somewhere else?

I'm saying her base str/intelligence is going up, not the modifier. Bull strength is base +4, I'm saying her strength (base) went from 7 to 9, so only +2.

Her intelligence went up +6 instead of just 4 (not the modifiers)

edit: I don't know how to make this more clear, so I'm going to show pictures to make it so you can see. I *AM* using mods, so the mods might be doing something, but I removed ALL gear, look at how the attributes are:

Strength:
https://i.imgur.com/CaW6Iwm.png

Intelligence:
https://i.imgur.com/HSrYio8.png

[Raven]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

if you are wearing a belt of +2 strength ad use bull's strength then your strength only goes up by 2 more.

nenio's base strength is 5. bulk stregth would bring it up to 9. if she had 7 before using bull strength then you were likely getting a +2 enhancement bonus from something and then using bull overwrote that +2 enhancement with a +4 enhancement

bonuses are separated into different "types"
the game will tell you if it's a "morale bonus" or an "enhancement" bonus or "cooking" or "profane" , "circumstance" , "insight". most of these don't stack. it just takes the highest one.

the bull,cat,fox,etc spells are enhancement bonuses, they don't stack with belts and hats which are also enhancement bonuses.

for nenio, though, you can find draven's hat which is a profane bonus, which does stack with fox cunning.

similarly, shield of faith divine spell is a deflection bonus, does not stack with a ring of protections.

shield spell arcane magic does not stack with a shield in the offhand, both are shield bonuses.

barkskin is a "natural AC" bonus and noes not stack with an amulet of natural AC.

some bonuses do stack. dodge bonuses stack, and i think insight bonuses stack and circumstance bonuses stack, but those are not comon and it's not likely to come up.

also, luck bonus, sacred bonus exist.

oddly, for some reason, bestow grace, a paladin spell adds a sacred bonus to saving throws and it stacks with the normal bonus that the paladin gets, so casting on themself pretty much doubles the boost they get to their saving throws.

also guarded hearth is a sacred bonus, if you have a community domain caster, this ability stacks with just about anything.

I feel like the answer might be in here, but its not showing that her base strength was 5, it is showing it was 7 (see screen shots)

Also I have no idea whats going on with her unarmed strike using that icon, so it leads me to believe all of this is a mod issue in the end and not a problem with nenio herself (although she is literally the only one effected like this. Not like I was using her for her strength anyway, but still)

[Icedfate]

the reason nenios "base stregth says 7, is because they put a 7 on it at character creation, but then she's getting a -2 because she's a kitsune.
i'm not sure why your screenshot isn't saying that. . .

mine right now unbuffed says
base value : 7 (my guess is that is what was put there at creation)
modified value : 5 (because her racial adjustments)
modifier : -3 (that's just the combat modifier saying she's getting -3 to attack rolls
racial : -2 keen kitsune (this is the racial modifer that's changing it from 7 to 5)

maybe it's not showing you because you might not have reached a point in the story where she reveals to you that she's a kitsune, because she herself has forgotten

so she has 5, and then bull stregth ks raising it to 9. but if she hasnt revealed her kistune nature yet, that's why her sheet looks wrong.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

the reason nenios "base stregth says 7, is because they put a 7 on it at character creation, but then she's getting a -2 because she's a kitsune.
i'm not sure why your screenshot isn't saying that. . .

mine right now unbuffed says
base value : 7
modified value : 5
modifier : -3
racial : -2 keen kitsune

maybe it's not showing you because you might not have reached a point in the story where she reveals to you that she's a kitsune, because she herself has forgotten

bingo, this is it. It hit me when you said that and I was confused with my having 7. I did break things with mods, I wound up with her kitsune stats without doing that part of her story...so yup, all on me and being stupid with mods. Basically True Sight+Legendary proportions definitely busts things when you use them way too early in the game.

[Icedfate]

well your screenshot helped me puzzle it out

[Raven]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

well your screenshot helped me puzzle it out

It's kinda wild to me that her sense of selective memory is so strong that she forgot how weak she is and how smart she actually is (well, at or at least how strong her transformation abilities are)

[Icedfate]

master shapeshifter + human form = free +4 to STR DEX and CON that stacks with everything else