Empowering summons abilities..may not be working

[HydraLord]

Hi there.

Paying my main as a Warpriest, while not directly capable of summoning creatures, by abilities i can summon schirs, by atifacts i can summon angels and azatas, and by mythic path i can summon Vrocks.
I make my way to augment summoning, in battle log there seem to be no strenght bonus beside the inherent one. Is this right?, only spell like summoning abilities are to be affected?
Are there some feat or trait that affect summons from abilities?
Anyone knows if the robe that gives unholly/holly attack to summons may work on mine or some other items?
Welcoming any kind of thoughts...

Thanks in advance
Have fun

[Gracey Face]

What I have seen people say is that the augmented and superior summoning feats only effect spells cast from your spellbook and only summoning spells from the conjuration tree (so not raise dead or anything like that).

I have never tested it personally though.

[Drake]

The words in the description are very specific. It's summon spells. Summon spells are the summon elemental, creature and animal from the conjuration school (or any spell that derives from them, like summon monster, summon nature's ally, summon genie, creeping doom etc.). So they have to be actual real spells from the spellbook, not spell-like abilities.

Also animate dead or other necromancy raising spell are not summons.

Summoning is a very specific type of magic, it's about teleporting a living creature from another plane. So skeletons, ghouls etc. are not summons, since they're animated corpses.

[fox5s]

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

What I have seen people say is that the augmented and superior summoning feats only effect spells cast from your spellbook and only summoning spells from the conjuration tree (so not raise dead or anything like that).

Can confirm. This is correct. There's actually a wizard racial archtype (Cruoromancer) that specializes in Necromancy that can apply an Augment Summon effect to Animate Dead (and gets Animate Dead as a third level spell instead of fourth).

[HydraLord]

First of all, thanks guys for taking your time to write.
So it is seems clear now, my interpretation of the abilities description was wrong.
As said only those by summon spell will be affected, a pity...was hoping to enhance my abilities summons; now i have a couple of traits choosen with abilities that are not helpfull.
In any case thanks again guys, it is good to have players to exchange information about the game.

Have fun

[Raikon]

How would you know its not working? Stregnth bonuses arent listed in the combat log. Just the stregnth number itself. Superior summoning has its issues, but I dont see why augment summons, wouldnt work with your items or abilities.

[HydraLord]

Tested the summons in battle before leveling up and wrote down the statics like strength bonus that appear on the battle log. Then i leveled up, and choose augmented summoning. Battle again, and the battle log showed the same bonus of the strength, even if it was wrong the bonus to hit was the same...no improvement on the summoned creatures.

Have fun

[Raikon]

Did you rest inbetween the fights?

[HydraLord]

I think i did, but as i keep the playthorugh even with this (potential) useless abilities (to my set up), ill check again the battle log and let you know.

[Raikon]

Summons take a snapshot of all the buffs they have at the time thier summoned and stay that way. If you forgot to turn on your holy shirt of dividing power, summon, then turn it on, they wont get anything out of it.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by HydraLord:

First of all, thanks guys for taking your time to write.
So it is seems clear now, my interpretation of the abilities description was wrong.
As said only those by summon spell will be affected, a pity...was hoping to enhance my abilities summons; now i have a couple of traits choosen with abilities that are not helpfull.
In any case thanks again guys, it is good to have players to exchange information about the game.

Have fun

It's not your interpretation necessarily, just some abilities are not programmed in a way that conforms to their descriptions.

Another example is that seize the moment and outflank, by their descriptions, should give you the ability to perform 2 attacks of opportunity when a friendly crits due to them both giving you a free AoO in that situation, except they don't stack and you only get one (some people occasionally report getting 2, but as far as I know this isn't reproducable. Personally never had both feats at once to test :D).

[HydraLord]

Neither do i Gracey Face, but for this we may check for other players not to go the same wrong path as i.
Raikon, tested again with the rest, no luck. Schirs of the summon battle companion (warpriest) do not get empowered by augmented summoning trait.

[Drake]

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

Originally posted by HydraLord:

First of all, thanks guys for taking your time to write.
So it is seems clear now, my interpretation of the abilities description was wrong.
As said only those by summon spell will be affected, a pity...was hoping to enhance my abilities summons; now i have a couple of traits choosen with abilities that are not helpfull.
In any case thanks again guys, it is good to have players to exchange information about the game.

Have fun

It's not your interpretation necessarily, just some abilities are not programmed in a way that conforms to their descriptions.

Another example is that seize the moment and outflank, by their descriptions, should give you the ability to perform 2 attacks of opportunity when a friendly crits due to them both giving you a free AoO in that situation, except they don't stack and you only get one (some people occasionally report getting 2, but as far as I know this isn't reproducable. Personally never had both feats at once to test :D).

Concerning augment summoning, the feat is working as intended. Spell-like and supernatural abilities should not benefit from it.

About outflank and seize the moment, they can't stack because of the the Aoo rule : you cannot trigger more than one Aoo from a single action.
So the same crit can't trigger an aoo from outflank and seize the moment.
So the abilities are programmed correctly, it's just that there is another rule that is also programmed that is also in play.
Stacking both is usually useful to chain aoos against any creature (because outflank doesn't work against unflankable creatures), and seize the moment works with snapshot archers.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by Drake:

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

It's not your interpretation necessarily, just some abilities are not programmed in a way that conforms to their descriptions.

Another example is that seize the moment and outflank, by their descriptions, should give you the ability to perform 2 attacks of opportunity when a friendly crits due to them both giving you a free AoO in that situation, except they don't stack and you only get one (some people occasionally report getting 2, but as far as I know this isn't reproducable. Personally never had both feats at once to test :D).

Concerning augment summoning, the feat is working as intended. Spell-like and supernatural abilities should not benefit from it.

About outflank and seize the moment, they can't stack because of the the Aoo rule : you cannot trigger more than one Aoo from a single action.
So the same crit can't trigger an aoo from outflank and seize the moment.
So the abilities are programmed correctly, it's just that there is another rule that is also programmed that is also in play.
Stacking both is usually useful to chain aoos against any creature (because outflank doesn't work against unflankable creatures), and seize the moment works with snapshot archers.

You misunderstand. Augment summoning's description says "increase the stats of any monster you summon by +4" or something along those lines. Except there's multiple summon spells, some even called "summon X" or having "You summon X" in the description that do not benefit from it because it only benefits conjuration spells. The description gives you no indicator of this however.

And the issue with Outflank and StM is that it doesn't say in either of their descriptions that you can only get a single AoO from one trigger, I don't think it says anywhere in game in fact. So since it doesn't it should give you 2 because it doesn't say that it won't and both feats apply.

[Drake]

Originally posted by Gracey Face:

Originally posted by Drake:

Concerning augment summoning, the feat is working as intended. Spell-like and supernatural abilities should not benefit from it.

About outflank and seize the moment, they can't stack because of the the Aoo rule : you cannot trigger more than one Aoo from a single action.
So the same crit can't trigger an aoo from outflank and seize the moment.
So the abilities are programmed correctly, it's just that there is another rule that is also programmed that is also in play.
Stacking both is usually useful to chain aoos against any creature (because outflank doesn't work against unflankable creatures), and seize the moment works with snapshot archers.

You misunderstand. Augment summoning's description says "increase the stats of any monster you summon by +4" or something along those lines. Except there's multiple summon spells, some even called "summon X" or having "You summon X" in the description that do not benefit from it because it only benefits conjuration spells. The description gives you no indicator of this however.

And the issue with Outflank and StM is that it doesn't say in either of their descriptions that you can only get a single AoO from one trigger, I don't think it says anywhere in game in fact. So since it doesn't it should give you 2 because it doesn't say that it won't and both feats apply.

Summon spells are all conjuration spells. The feat references the summon subschool, in pnp it's even written in italic, to specify it's not flavour text.

About outflank, it's not in the feat because it's a general rule. That's like saying they should specify in every ability that the same kind of enhancements don't stack.