For those who have problems with hard fights...Shatter them all

[Dave]

I know most of you already know about this, but personally I ignored this mechanic for too long, and often i found myself save scumming a lot of fights where all my party could do was Miss, miss, miss, miss, and then die to a double 20 from the enemy.

Shatter defense main requirement is 6 bab. Meaning level 6-7 for any Martial character. Meaning Gray Garrison, Gargoyles, Drezen all with flat footed enemies, bosses included....a walk in the park.

My MC got it by level 7 (rogue). Seelah as full BAB carried the group through gray Garrison.

How to activate it?

get a persuasion focused char. MC, or Seelah, or Ember, or Daeran. Any of them works.

Single target intimidate and/or aoe Dazzling Display (also Mythic if you wanna do something else during your turn).

NO Spell Resiatnce
NO Saving Throw
works on boses even

The summoned boss inside Drezen Citadel has 46 defense to intimidate (on Unfair).

With a heavy Persuasion build you reach him with a minimum of +39 persuasion, meaning you shaken him on a 7 roll. And I didnt count all possible buff you could get, for even more than that.
If you take 1 lvl of Thug you can even fear him.

I understand that there are things like

Frightful Aspect ( lvl 15, or trickster lvl 13 time limited)
Dirge Bard ( level 8 limited rounds/song)
Trickster Persuasion Trick (level 10-11 specific Mythic Path)

Intimidate/Dazzling Display work starting from level 1, are unlimited usage and work with every class, just need a couple of talents (boosting the skill), and points in CHA/WIS (acolyte) and the game will become so much easier

P.S.
A shaken enemy has -2 on attack, skill check, saving throws, meaning even without Shatter Defenses it is still worth using for spells with DC, or to help the tank

[MjKorz]

Shatter Defenses has uses super early, but it becomes pointless very fast. WotR is a game where leveling is super fast and higher level spells are acquired rapidly. No party should ever go adventuring without a full arcane caster (Nenio is perfectly sufficient even on unfair) and arcane casters are capable of making enemies flat footed AND take them out of the fight with a whole arsenal of AoE spells belonging to different schools.

Yes, you can sacrifice multiple feats and make a Shatter Defense martial with high Persuasion values, but in a proper party you'd just be wasting feats past the very early game.

[Dave]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Shatter Defenses has uses super early, but it becomes pointless very fast. WotR is a game where leveling is super fast and higher level spells are acquired rapidly. No party should ever go adventuring without a full arcane caster (Nenio is perfectly sufficient even on unfair) and arcane casters are capable of making enemies flat footed AND take them out of the fight with a whole arsenal of AoE spells belonging to different schools.

Yes, you can sacrifice multiple feats and make a Shatter Defense martial with high Persuasion values, but in a proper party you'd just be wasting feats past the very early game.

Wrong on multiple points.

1. Arcane casters can make enemies Flat Footed, mainly with invisibility, true, but invisibility ends, and True Sight, See Invisibility are there to say hello.
2. I also stated that there is the spell Frightful Aspect, but that comes online at level 15, meaning end of Act 3, start Act 4, or level 13, end Act 3 if you go trickster. the hardest and longest part of the game is 1-15, not 15-20.
3. Arcane casters (Nenio) can't do anything but buffs for the first half of the game due to high saves on enemies. he starts to shine when he can use level 6-7 spells, again at level 11-12, but again..spells are limited, and come late in the game

Obviously if you play on Story mode, or normal, or maybe even Core you are right, but then you missed the first part of the post where i stated:

".....all my party could do was Miss, miss, miss, miss, and then die to a double 20 from the enemy."

This simply doesn't happen on lower difficulties, so there is no need to "waste" talents on something that will make you hit an enemy you could already hit without them, I agree

But again....these kind of games are extremely easy if you build your party properly on medium-low difficulties, where you can play a Mage with 7 STR, 7 INT, and kill Deskari with a Glaive.

Unfair and even hard...are another story

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Dave:

Wrong on multiple points.

Lol.

Originally posted by Dave:

1. Arcane casters can make enemies Flat Footed, mainly with invisibility

Lmao.

Originally posted by Dave:

True Sight, See Invisibility are there to say hello

Mind Blank counters True Sight and Echolocation is quite rare. But then again, Invisibility is just one possible tool out of many and far from the strongest one.

Originally posted by Dave:

Frightful Aspect

Is not really important on a grand scale at that point in the game, though the -2 save debuff is always nice when it works.

Originally posted by Dave:

3. Arcane casters (Nenio) can't do anything but buffs for the first half of the game due to high saves on enemies

Arcane casters can inflict AoE blindness with 100% success rate against unfair bosses starting from the early game. Blindness causes both flat-footed status, debuffs AC by an additional -2 and makes the enemy suffer a 50% concealment penalty when attacking. A simple level 2 spell obtained early in the game already does more than Shatter Defenses lol and it only gets better:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2929807159

Outside of blindness which is just a debuff, there are other effects like Stun and Emotion that make the enemy both flat-footed AND disable them entirely, preventing them from acting. Other status effects like paralysis and sleep make the enemy not just flat-footed, but entirely helpless allowing automatic criticals and instant death via Coup de Grace.

Another thing you failed to mention is that Fear effects can be countered by inherent enemy immunities, but only casters can bypass those immunities. A Fear spell cast by an arcane caster can penetrate the mind-affecting and fear immunity of undead while a martial has no tools to bypass the fear immunity.

Basically, you have no clue how to build and play a caster so your further opinions are not even worth reading. And yes, I'm talking strictly about unfair difficulty.

[Baldurs_Gate_2]

With Wizard Lich you get Lvl 8 Spells like Frightful Aspect right with lvl 12.

Shatter Defenses is actually good against Blightmaw, because he has uncanny dodge and can't be flat footed with just greater invis as example.

But if you can target touch ac, you do not care about that anyway.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Baldurs_Gate_2:

Shatter Defenses is actually good against Blightmaw, because he has uncanny dodge and can't be flat footed with just greater invis as example.

At that point in the game you can just paralyze or stun Blightmaw, depending on what kind of spellcaster you have in the party:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2926914167

[Dave]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Arcane casters can inflict AoE blindness with 100% success rate against unfair bosses starting from the early game. Blindness causes both flat-footed status, debuffs AC by an additional -2 and makes the enemy suffer a 50% concealment penalty when attacking. A simple level 2 spell obtained early in the game already does more than Shatter Defenses lol and it only gets better:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2929807159

So to prove your point you post a screenshot that shows 2 things

1. DC 24, bonus +12, meaning the succubus has 50% chance to pass it......but the screenshot is called 100%..GOOD JOB
2. +12 bonus is reached with double evil eye on Saving throw. That is so dumb that i admit i didn't know you could cast Evil Eye from 2 different witches/shaman and stack them. If that is good party building....good luck in playing this games.

But anyway...talking about 100% debuffs on enemies, on Unfair, especially early levels, just shows you have no idea what you're talking about, so i'll stop wasting time answering your fantasies.

Just a hint for the future, when you'll reply another post without a clue, at least read them.

In my post i clearly stated (doing some copy paste so maybe this time you will read it):

"Intimidate/Dazzling Display work starting from level 1, are unlimited usage and work with every class,"

So if you keep saying there are spells (limited number) that arcane casters (specific arcane DC caster) can use, that means you miss the meaning of 2 simple words:

Unlimited
Every

And again....good luck passing the saving throws of enemies and bosses on hard/unfair at early level (1-15), without gear and levels, where the BEST you could do was show a screenshot (you clearly didn't understand) with a 50% success spell, calling it 100%.

For once it would be nice to speak with people who have at least a base knowledge of the game, instead of speaking with trolls who play story mode, and fish google for wrong screenshot to post.

[Dave]

Originally posted by Baldurs_Gate_2:

With Wizard Lich you get Lvl 8 Spells like Frightful Aspect right with lvl 12.

Shatter Defenses is actually good against Blightmaw, because he has uncanny dodge and can't be flat footed with just greater invis as example.

But if you can target touch ac, you do not care about that anyway.

Agree. When I reached him last playthrough I could hit his touch AC but 31 Spell Reistance was pretty heavy to pass for a lvl 10 char, add it to his 500+ HP, and...it was NOT an easy fight.

Didn't know about lich getting the spell a level earlier than even trickster, good to know.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Dave:

1. DC 24, bonus +12, meaning the succubus has 50% chance to pass it......but the screenshot is called 100%..

Kek, this never fails to catch the wannabe "experts" off-guard. No, it's not 50%, it's 100%. Let's see if you can even read the combat log:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2929844685

Originally posted by Dave:

That is so dumb that i admit i didn't know

Don't worry, you don't have to admit anything since it is immediately obvious that you don't know anything.

Originally posted by Dave:

just shows you have no idea what you're talking about

Precisely, that's the advice you should take.

Originally posted by Dave:

"Intimidate/Dazzling Display work starting from level 1, are unlimited usage and work with every class,"

An arcane caster can pronelock the unfair water elemental with 100% success rate. Unlimited usage means nothing in a game where you can just rest lol and the spell economy is actually extremely efficient. Every party should have an arcane caster so the "any class" nonsense is meaningless.

Originally posted by Dave:

And again....good luck passing the saving throws of enemies and bosses on hard/unfair at early level (1-15)

Why would I need luck when even Nenio can do it with 100% success rate lol:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2884707966

Originally posted by Dave:

the BEST you could do was show a screenshot (you clearly didn't understand) with a 50% success spell, calling it 100%.

What's actually happening is you having no clue how casters work and how to play one.

Originally posted by Dave:

For once it would be nice to speak with people who have at least a base knowledge of the game

Why would you ask for a level of knowledge you do not posses?

[Dave]

Just for whoever read this post and look at those screenshots

Nabasu 100% = Nabasu rolled 11, and would have passed the check with 13+, call it 100%....ok, Math and percentages are for noobs

Vescavor = Queen rolled a 11, and would have passed the check with a 12+, that clearly shows..............that he got lucky on the rolls

So...don't bother watching this guy screenshot..he has no clue of what is really happening in them.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Dave:

Just for whoever read this post and look at those screenshots

Nabasu 100% = Nabasu rolled 11, and would have passed the check with 13+, call it 100%....ok, Math and percentages are for noobs

Vescavor = Queen rolled a 11, and would have passed the check with a 12+, that clearly shows..............that he got lucky on the rolls

So...don't bother watching this guy screenshot..he has no clue of what is really happening in them.

Clowning wannabe "experts" will never stop being funny:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2943910354

11, 11, 11... Any mind capable of spotting patterns would have already started asking questions, but not every man is a learning animal.

[Dave]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Clowning wannabe "experts" will never stop being funny:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2943910354

11, 11, 11... Any mind capable of spotting patterns would have already started asking questions, but not every man is a learning animal.

See, finally you got the point

The difference between me...a legit player who plays without mods, and doesn't abuse tricks or whatever those screenshot are showsing....and a guy who's playing on story mode and has no clue about this game mechanics

In those screenshots i see enemies rolling 11, and failing on rolling 12, meaning in my LEGIT playthrough, my spell would fail on a 12+ roll. Simple as that.

But ya...we got WAY off-topic thats to me answering trolls who have no clue about this game so....back on topic and ignoring 11 rolls screenshots

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Dave:

In those screenshots i see enemies rolling 11

Except there is no roll. The enemy is not rolling anything. What we see here is you embarrassing yourself and it's hilarious.

[Dave]

Saving throws result 22, roll 11 + modifiers 11.

Have fun with whatever game you're playing.

[MjKorz]

I wonder if he will delete the thread when he realizes what's happening lol.

[Dave]

Wasted enough time with you. I made a post to help a lot of people who write about hard fights and ask for help giving a legit solution

You answered with a specific class with a specific build going against saving throws roll, and kept trolling with those screenshot.

I'm jsut sure there are people who will find my post helpful and that's it, i'll go back playing my game, where enemies actually roll more than 11....strange game i know