Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition

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Yannir Apr 24, 2023 @ 3:33am
Help me build a Signifer.
So, I actually already made one for Core difficulty and it's working great. However I don't think I optimized the build very well. I think I got a few things right but I'm not happy with some choices I made after a short plan. I'm level 16 currently in the Demon city and thinking of remaking the character when I get back to Drezen, which will be level 17.

For some background, the build I'm going for is a heavy armor melee mage that is a mid-ground between damage and staying power that still gets access to high level spells eventually. Level 8 spells (Seamantle, Frightful Aspect) is where I'm aiming since I don't think I need level 9. Nenio is my primary spellcaster for level 9 spells.

It is a mercenary, so a 20-pointbuy for stats. Str and Cha mainly. I think I did 18Str/16Cha and left everything else at 10.
What I went with:
(Generic) Sorcerer 5 -> Dragon Disciple 4 -> Signifer 7, for a total of 16. Blue Dragon Bloodline. Human for the extra skill point. Skill points go into Arcane, World and Persuasion. If I pick the human feat for extra skill points, it's going to Mobility.

So my first question is, do I want to go Seeker rather than generic? It's an extra feat but I'm not sure what I'm losing here. Does Seeker get Dragon bloodlines?
Is this too much Signifer? Level 3 for Arcane Armor Mastery is the bare minimum but is more than that basically a waste? Should I go deeper into DD instead? I want them to hit things so going further into Sorcerer, with their low BAB, is not really an option.
Do I want to dip into Oracle for Nature's Whispers Cha to AC conversion? Does it bypass the Dex cap imposed by armor?

I picked Lumberjack background to get Greataxe but I think this was a mistake. I might wanna go Martial Disciple instead, eat the feat tax to get Martial Weapon proficiency and pick up a Bardiche. I want reach and my MC is already using Longspear so that's a no-go. Or should I go with a one-handed weapon and Crane Style? Which would then require 13 Dex to get Dodge. I might want that anyway.

So yeah kinda wanna min-max this down to the T. Kinda wondering whether it would be Legend MC viable if I only picked up (Greater) Enduring Spells.
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Showing 1-5 of 5 comments
MjKorz Apr 24, 2023 @ 5:21am 
Originally posted by Yannir:
mid-ground between damage and staying power
No such thing in this game. If you cannot reliably avoid getting hit, you have no staying power.

Originally posted by Yannir:
Is this too much Signifer? Level 3 for Arcane Armor Mastery is the bare minimum but is more than that basically a waste?
1 level of Signifier is too much Signifier, the entire class is worthless. If you're going to play Signifier, you play it for the memes at which point you might as well go all in straight to 10.

The best way to play Signifier without gimping yourself too much is to take the Wiz5/EK10/Lrm5 build and convert it into Wiz5/Sig10/Lrm5. This build will not have any AC, but it is a surprisingly deadly damage dealer. You will lose some BAB, but BAB doesn't matter when you have Transformation. Where BAB does matter is delaying your Improved Critical and Vulpine Pounce further, because they have 8BAB and 11BAB requirements respectively. On the other hand, you get a +1CL relative to an EK, because Signifier enjoys a full CL and spell progression, thus becoming a better dispeller.

Since maximizing damage output is the goal of this build, you go Kitsune since it allows you to decouple Pounce from the Skald via Vulpine Pounce. You can still Vulpine Pounce in human form, I just checked. The problem with this is that Vulpine Pounce has an 11BAB requirement which is reached extremely late by this build and is the reason why EK does this build far better. Alternatively, you can go Human and get yourself a Skald at the cost of a party slot. For stat distribution you want to max out STR and get 19INT. 1 stat increment goes into INT and the other 4 go into STR. Other stats don't mater, you can dumpster them all.

For your weapon of choice you want Fauchard for the reach and the inherent 18-20 critical threat range, though the Grave Singer Greataxe will do better at the cost of reach (very important for a build with no defenses).

5 Loremaster levels give you 3 secrets:

1. Rogue Secret -> Combat Trick -> Improved Improved Critical. Yes, it works in the current patch, I tested just now. This increases your critical threat range to 13-20 which then further can be increased to 11-20 with the Flawless Belt of Physical Perfection +8 (obtained after killing Playful Darkness as bonus loot after killing Inevitable Darkness in the Inevitable Excess DLC). When you reach a critical threat range of 11-20 or better, magical things happen as you can set your d20 roll value to 11 via Touch of Law or Aeon abilities, which is why Loremaster is so strong as it allows builds to hit this threat range without going Trickster, thus decoupling guaranteed criticals from mythic path choice.

2. Divine Power for the +6 Luck attack and damage bonus.

3. Eaglesoul for the +4 Sacred STR bonus.

Feat progression for a kitsune is something like this: Arcane Armor Training, Exotic Weapon Proficiency Fauchard, Arcane Strike, Combat Reflexes, Outflank, Improved Initiative, Improved Critical, Skill Focus Arcana/World, Lunge, Vulpine Pounce. If you're going human, you get Spell Focus Abjuration + Spell Specialization Greater Dispel as a bonus feat + replacement for Vulpine Pounce. Wizard bonus feats are metamagics: Heighten and Extend.

For Mythic Abilities you take all the standard martial stuff with Mythic Charge and Master Shapeshifter. Spend some mythic feats to get Enduring Spells as well, you will have some spare mythic feats since you get no Mythic Weapon Focus/Specialization.
Last edited by MjKorz; Apr 24, 2023 @ 5:30am
Yannir Apr 24, 2023 @ 6:09am 
Yeah, it's 100% a meme build but I'd still like to make the best of it.

Problem with Fauchard is it requires an Exotic Weapon proficiency, which requires Martial Weapons proficiency. Which none of these classes gets naturally. So you're sacrificing not just 1 feat but 2 to get it. Which might be worth it.

Thanks for your input!
MjKorz Apr 24, 2023 @ 6:22am 
Originally posted by Yannir:
Yeah, it's 100% a meme build but I'd still like to make the best of it.

Problem with Fauchard is it requires an Exotic Weapon proficiency, which requires Martial Weapons proficiency. Which none of these classes gets naturally. So you're sacrificing not just 1 feat but 2 to get it. Which might be worth it.

Thanks for your input!
I took exotic weapon proficiency fauchard as a Wizard3 with one feat:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2966664164
Belegc Apr 24, 2023 @ 6:26am 
If you want to go for more RP-flavored build you could try an Arthas (Death Knight) build.
something like Sage Sorcerer 7/Signifier3 (order of the gate)/EK10 will give 15 BAB and you can use Death's Consonant Bardiche (uses INT for AB and Damage) as a two-handed weapon and a Mithral Full plate as armor without ASF.
you can discard DEX (as you are using heavy armor) and put 14 Strength (for power attack) and the rest in INT. you are CL 19 (meaning 9th level spells) and can select second bloodline undead and ascended bloodline for some immunities as well.
Yannir Apr 24, 2023 @ 7:07am 
Originally posted by MjKorz:
Originally posted by Yannir:
Yeah, it's 100% a meme build but I'd still like to make the best of it.

Problem with Fauchard is it requires an Exotic Weapon proficiency, which requires Martial Weapons proficiency. Which none of these classes gets naturally. So you're sacrificing not just 1 feat but 2 to get it. Which might be worth it.

Thanks for your input!
I took exotic weapon proficiency fauchard as a Wizard3 with one feat:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2966664164
Okay, so the Wiki is just wrong then. Noted.
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Date Posted: Apr 24, 2023 @ 3:33am
Posts: 5