Any point to take Boundless Healing if we can get Favorite Reach Metamagic ?

[Nito]

The title.

The Midnight DLC is so good to test ♥♥♥♥.

[Nito]

Originally posted by RB:

My healer got jammed by some weird error and never makes the actual healing
so I gave'em the boundless and all went well
But this isn't something that I can brag about cuz it costed me a stupid choice so...

I mean the Heal by channeling and the Oracle life spirit or something does most of the job on healing(be it raw healing or total uses) so i see no point on doing boundless

[Nito]

Originally posted by Yannir:

So you use a Mythic Feat and a regular Feat to accomplish the same that can be achieved with a single Mythic Ability? And you lose the extra healing.

I can see the benefit IF you actually use spells like Inflicts, Harm or Slay Living. However I personally don't use these spells.

The low level ones aren't very good as damage spells go. If I have to pick between Boneshaker and Inflict Moderate Wounds, Boneshaker is just better almost every time and every way. IMW wouldn't even be my second choice since Arrow of Law exists.

The higher level ones just have so much competition that they get edged out in favor of better spells, not necessarily damaging ones. Why would I pick Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass when I can get Stormbolts or Fire Storm?

I use one regular feat that affect all spells and one Mythic ability to reduce the higher level slot spell cost

Sure you can use reach on boneshaker to cast it even more distant same with arrow of law something that boundless heal doesnt work

You could per example cast Destruction at Mid Range or bestow curse ranged or Umbral Stike at Long Range and so on

[Soul]

Originally posted by Nito:

Originally posted by Yannir:

So you use a Mythic Feat and a regular Feat to accomplish the same that can be achieved with a single Mythic Ability? And you lose the extra healing.

I can see the benefit IF you actually use spells like Inflicts, Harm or Slay Living. However I personally don't use these spells.

The low level ones aren't very good as damage spells go. If I have to pick between Boneshaker and Inflict Moderate Wounds, Boneshaker is just better almost every time and every way. IMW wouldn't even be my second choice since Arrow of Law exists.

The higher level ones just have so much competition that they get edged out in favor of better spells, not necessarily damaging ones. Why would I pick Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass when I can get Stormbolts or Fire Storm?

I use one regular feat that affect all spells and one Mythic ability to reduce the higher level slot spell cost

Sure you can use reach on boneshaker to cast it even more distant same with arrow of law something that boundless heal doesnt work

You could per example cast Destruction at Mid Range or bestow curse ranged or Umbral Stike at Long Range and so on

i'd say at this point it sounds like you are debating whether its worth taking to save up room for another feat... and im seeing you lean more towards favorite metamagic reach a little bit more so....

boundless healing would affect healing spells by providing them with essentially a free metamagic reach with no extra cost as if through a metamagic rod of reach for your healing spells and give them a boost to help healing...

favorite metamagic reach would provide a downside for spontaneous casters with longer cast time but you could still 5 foot step and on bright side it can affect more spells outside of healing...

so what i'd recommend is if you got inevitable access to roll a character on there with both feats and take a look at their utility and compare yourself.... you create a level 20 character and walk into next zone to choose party members and I like to use Nenio as guinea pig... for the sake of science afterall... lol... from there you can really figure out which feats would best suit you....

but I can confirm that favorite metamagic bolster, empowered, maximized AND reach can make hellfire ray the same reach as chain lightning up to 60 feet instead of 30 feet and be cast as a level 9 spell from level 6...

so if your wanting to use metamagics as a spontaneous caster for damage i'd lean more torwards reach spells since casting metamagics limits your ability to move by taking up your move and standard action... having favorite metamagic reach would help make sure you will be in range of enemy better and if your already stacking metamagics on the spell it only helps make sure they'll be in range by doubling the distance to hit and the whole cant move around as spontaneous caster is a pointless downside if your already using other metamagics cause it aint gonna add more penalties to cast time afterall...

[Chunky]

They're different abilities. You get more hp back with boundless healing and you can use reach on the rest of your spellbook with the other. Just decide what you want.

From a pure power perspective I usually find both to be sub optimal. Channel is already a ranged heal and you can take mythic channeling as a mythic feat. You get more power boosts from abundant casting, ascendant element, and domaines/mysteries/spirit/third bloodline.

Not to mention you get a crossbow early in Act 4 that automatically gives you reach for healing spells.

[Nito]

Originally posted by Chunky:

They're different abilities. You get more hp back with boundless healing and you can use reach on the rest of your spellbook with the other. Just decide what you want.

From a pure power perspective I usually find both to be sub optimal. Channel is already a ranged heal and you can take mythic channeling as a mythic feat. You get more power boosts from abundant casting, ascendant element, and domaines/mysteries/spirit/third bloodline.

Not to mention you get a crossbow early in Act 4 that automatically gives you reach for healing spells.

Well this furthers that Boundless healing is useless even more on the main game

Just saying that with Reach you can use Dispel from a good distance and also buff allies from distance....

[darthdud0]

boundless healing allows you to heal with cure light wounds late game at all, it literally makes every healing spell better and thus takes less casts to heal, it also cuts down on the channel energy uses and\or potions after battle, and with abundant castings you will never hurt for hp ever again, the healing is the draw and not the auto reach, it is just the cherry on top to make it even better.

[Nito]

Originally posted by darthdud0:

boundless healing allows you to heal with cure light wounds late game at all, it literally makes every healing spell better and thus takes less casts to heal, it also cuts down on the channel energy uses and\or potions after battle, and with abundant castings you will never hurt for hp ever again, the healing is the draw and not the auto reach, it is just the cherry on top to make it even better.

Late game ? Light cure wounds is semi useless around lvl 7 already even with the life spirit that Daeran has that this one really buffs healing spells

But again Chanelling and Heal outheal normal heals a lot and again you can cast touch damage spell and buff with increased distance while boundless is exclusive to heals that lets be sincere it is useless as you get mass and i could argue that Heal by boundless is good but again soon you will get mass heal....

[darthdud0]

Originally posted by Nito:

Originally posted by darthdud0:

boundless healing allows you to heal with cure light wounds late game at all, it literally makes every healing spell better and thus takes less casts to heal, it also cuts down on the channel energy uses and\or potions after battle, and with abundant castings you will never hurt for hp ever again, the healing is the draw and not the auto reach, it is just the cherry on top to make it even better.

Late game ? Light cure wounds is semi useless around lvl 7 already even with the life spirit that Daeran has that this one really buffs healing spells

But again Chanelling and Heal outheal normal heals a lot and again you can cast touch damage spell and buff with increased distance while boundless is exclusive to heals that lets be sincere it is useless as you get mass and i could argue that Heal by boundless is good but again soon you will get mass heal....

boundless healing is better at healing no matter what you do since whatever healing spell you have will become boundless.

why are you trying to make your healer dps? this is for healers, it is vary useful for a healer and no one else,
if your argument is that it is only useful for healing then we both agree, if you are saying that because it is only useful for healing that it is useless, then we disagree.

healing is useful, buffing is useful, ranged combat is useful, melee is useful, and complaining that cleaving shot doesn't work for battle axes is the same as complaining boundless healing doesn't help for combat, there are mythic abilities for every kind of character, buffers get enduring and greater enduring spells, enchantment gets best jokes, blasters get ascendant element, summoners get ascendant summons, paladins get extra smites, and healers get boundless healing.

[Nito]

Originally posted by darthdud0:

boundless healing is better at healing no matter what you do since whatever healing spell you have will become boundless.

why are you trying to make your healer dps? this is for healers, it is vary useful for a healer and no one else,
if your argument is that it is only useful for healing then we both agree, if you are saying that because it is only useful for healing that it is useless, then we disagree.

healing is useful, buffing is useful, ranged combat is useful, melee is useful, and complaining that cleaving shot doesn't work for battle axes is the same as complaining boundless healing doesn't help for combat, there are mythic abilities for every kind of character, buffers get enduring and greater enduring spells, enchantment gets best jokes, blasters get ascendant element, summoners get ascendant summons, paladins get extra smites, and healers get boundless healing.

I mean that because i have taken boundless healing the two times i have beten the game so far and Daeran around lvl 10 until he unlocks heal is literally only that channel, some buffs and hold position and do miss his crossbow with Reach i can at least do some touch damage considering most enemies have a low touch AC

[darthdud0]

Originally posted by Nito:

I mean that because i have taken boundless healing the two times i have beten the game so far and Daeran around lvl 10 until he unlocks heal is literally only that channel, some buffs and hold position and do miss his crossbow with Reach i can at least do some touch damage considering most enemies have a low touch AC

so you are using him as a debuffer + channel energy?

you literally haven't used the ability and then complain it is useless, your build isn't using it.

i would agree that for your daeran it is useless since you built a debuffer with channel for group healing, for that build reach is better,
my daeran on the other hand would buff before battle and use channel only when the group was dying and using cure spells when a single character got towards half, because i made a healer i got more out of it,

since my daeran was a healer it was amazing.
since your daeran is a debuffer with an emergency channel heal, it is a terrible pick.

boundless healing is good when you keep it in mind when building a character,

[Nito]

Originally posted by darthdud0:

so you are using him as a debuffer + channel energy?

you literally haven't used the ability and then complain it is useless, your build isn't using it.

i would agree that for your daeran it is useless since you built a debuffer with channel for group healing, for that build reach is better,
my daeran on the other hand would buff before battle and use channel only when the group was dying and using cure spells when a single character got towards half, because i made a healer i got more out of it,

since my daeran was a healer it was amazing.
since your daeran is a debuffer with an emergency channel heal, it is a terrible pick.

boundless healing is good when you keep it in mind when building a character,

How did you got debuffer from what i said ?

i literally said buffer

Shield of faith, Death ward, energy protection

I stop using cure wound series around lvl 10 except serious some times because they only heal once and when Daeran reaches the level to use actual heal i use him for that

Otherwise again back to channel, buff and miss with the crossbow

Saying that using meta for reach i could just simply give him some defensive and agressive use instead of being bound to only use heal for emergencies

[darthdud0]

Originally posted by Nito:

Originally posted by darthdud0:

so you are using him as a debuffer + channel energy?

you literally haven't used the ability and then complain it is useless, your build isn't using it.

i would agree that for your daeran it is useless since you built a debuffer with channel for group healing, for that build reach is better,
my daeran on the other hand would buff before battle and use channel only when the group was dying and using cure spells when a single character got towards half, because i made a healer i got more out of it,

since my daeran was a healer it was amazing.
since your daeran is a debuffer with an emergency channel heal, it is a terrible pick.

boundless healing is good when you keep it in mind when building a character,

How did you got debuffer from what i said ?

i literally said buffer

Shield of faith, Death ward, energy protection

I stop using cure wound series around lvl 10 except serious some times because they only heal once and when Daeran reaches the level to use actual heal i use him for that

Otherwise again back to channel, buff and miss with the crossbow

Saying that using meta for reach i could just simply give him some defensive and agressive use instead of being bound to only use heal for emergencies

sorry i miss read your comment.

i thought you said you use hold person and not hold position,
my bad

as for a buffer, reach is less useful then extend + enduring and greater enduring spell, you can just stay buffed, and the per round buffs can be cast right before battle, reach and boundless healing aren't great for a buffer.

channel is great for a buffer to heal with though.

reach is good for both buff and debuff but extend and enduring are better for buffing.

[Nito]

Originally posted by darthdud0:

as for a buffer, reach is less useful then extend + enduring and greater enduring spell, you can just stay buffed, and the per round buffs can be cast right before battle, reach and boundless healing aren't great for a buffer.

channel is great for a buffer to heal with though.

reach is good for both buff and debuff but extend and enduring are better for buffing.

sure but i am trying to find the pros and cons because for example dispel is super useful as i learned using corrupting magic so not needing to do a touch range dispel is good

while boundless so far i only got that the advatage is not being full round cast and someone said it can heal more while so far even the actual heal spell got into a limit of 150 heal.

While yes using Selective, Extend are super important but my question if it is worth using mythic ability as you will at most use lvl 9 mythic the lvl 10 is like the final 10 minutes but if you take enduring and abundant that is 5 mythic if i took boundless and favorite reach that is 7....is it worth using a mythic path point for that ?

[darthdud0]

Originally posted by Nito:

sure but i am trying to find the pros and cons because for example dispel is super useful as i learned using corrupting magic so not needing to do a touch range dispel is good

while boundless so far i only got that the advatage is not being full round cast and someone said it can heal more while so far even the actual heal spell got into a limit of 150 heal.

While yes using Selective, Extend are super important but my question if it is worth using mythic ability as you will at most use lvl 9 mythic the lvl 10 is like the final 10 minutes but if you take enduring and abundant that is 5 mythic if i took boundless and favorite reach that is 7....is it worth using a mythic path point for that ?

have you ever played without boundless on daeran? maybe you didn't notice the healing it was giving you + you leaned on that good channel energy, if you don't see a difference then you are only using spells that do not have meaningful caps such as heal and mass heal.

boundless healing is an amazing mythic ability that you are effectively not using at all,

[Nito]

Originally posted by darthdud0:

have you ever played without boundless on daeran? maybe you didn't notice the healing it was giving you + you leaned on that good channel energy, if you don't see a difference then you are only using spells that do not have meaningful caps such as heal and mass heal.

boundless healing is an amazing mythic ability that you are effectively not using at all,

I am actually on the Midnight isles testing builds and made a oracle with life spirit like Daeran and enchanced cure is the only thing that i felt a difference on heals.....to being as "strong" as his heals