Class choice for Azata playthrough + annoying Deraknis rant

[sbudy]

Hi.

Bit of a background -
I'm a veteran of DND cRPGs but a beginner in pathfinder. I didn't play Kingmaker.
I'm on the final stages of my second overall play through (both games were on normal difficulty). My first one was a "conservative" beginner choice (paladin(divine scion)/angel) and the second was more adventurous/complex (sorcerer/arcane trickster/trickster->gold dragon).

I'm considering the appropriate class choice for a full Azata play through on core difficulty. I thought initially bard would be a good role playing choice but some low profile googling led me to the conclusion Bard/Azata is not a good combination, certainly not for my first time on a harder difficulty. I also enjoy playing full spell casters more than melee warriors or buffers. So now I consider playing an elemental specialist.

Any thoughts?

Ah, the annoying Derakni rant. For some reason on my second play-through my party had real problems with fear and rage saves, even though all of them had clocks +5/+6 and communal mind blank was always on. I probably didn't see this issue on my first game due to the angel halo bonuses.
It got to the point that in Iz the Deraknis gave me more pain than the Balors because a certain enraged party member Trever was killing me quicker than any Balor could (or "Killing" me, I should say, since I had last stand).

[sbudy]

(both games were on normal difficulty)

...With the exception of the midnight isles final boss fight which always crashes the game on normal difficulty. I've switched for story difficulty for that one. Ugh.

[Liecon]

Sorry for grammar and spelling

Azata does tend to do better as a full spell caster as Favourable magic (makes enemies roll twice for spell saves) and Zippy magic (any spell that targets one enemy will target another basically two casts in one) are super good, one level of Sorcerer (crossblooded) is really good as you can take two dragon bloodlines E.g white and silver and they will add 1 damage to every die rolled on any spell that deals there elemental damage cold in this case.
You can than take a mythic ability called second bloodline to get water elemental bloodline to change all elemental damage you deal into cold so the dragon bloodline damage boost always procs then mythic ability ascendant element to bypass cold damage reduction and your set you can do the with fire and lighting as well or you can go into wizard (elemental specialist) who can also convert all damage to one element just don't go past level 14 with that as you get an ability at level 15 to convert half damage into something (i cant remember) what but it means that that damage wont get the bonuses from the dragon bloodlines after level 15 you can go 5 levels into loremaster.

tl:dr Sorcerer (crossblooded) dragon bloodline of same elements and elemental bloodline of the same element at least 1 level if you don't like the class or 15 levels if you do the rest loremaster

or you can go 15 levels into Sorcerer base class or (overwhelming mage) take fey blood line take the second bloodline mythic ability take arcane bloodline and choose enchantment at level 15 for your school
grab mythic ability best jokes and with favaouable magic you can make enimes roll there saves twice so you can cc a whole crowd with a hidieous laughter using greater command from azata spells or taking it when you go loremaster for the 5 other levels for thing that arernt effected overwhelming presence once you get level 9 spells and usinge the grandmaster rod you can even bypass immunites so you can use this on deskari for example even tho hes normally immune to compulsion

tl;dr Sorcerer 15 levels take fey and arcane bloodline 5 loremaster levels make everything laugh to death

[Trolleur_Durden]

On the martial side of things, Azata also works very well with various 2-handed STR stacking builds up to Core difficulty. The general idea is to go all-in on DPS and rely on reach to stay at the edge of trouble. It's especially good now that the Lunge feat is available to everyone. Later on, you will also have the possibility to ride Aivu (once she gets big enough), which will provide you with much better defense and mobility.

[Yannir]

Yeah, Azata+Bard is not a good combo as Azata is basically a Mythic Bard but the bonuses don't stack. Personally I played a Warpriest which worked much better. No overlap of abilities and Azata can be a pretty good Mythic for a mainly melee guy that only uses magic to make their melee better.

On the other hand, it can also work really well for a main spellcaster.

So either you need to be in the thick of it or as far away from enemies as possible. Those are the 2 scenarios where I feel like Azata shines best.

I think the description for Life-Bonding Friendship is wrong btw, atleast on the wiki it is. You might want to pick it first since it gives you a new Teamwork feat every time you gain a new Superpower. In addition to the new Superpower. So if you pick it at MR 4, you'll gain 4 bonus Teamwork feats from it. I don't know what happens if you pick it later.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Liecon:

or you can go 15 levels into Sorcerer base class or (overwhelming mage)

Overwhelming Mage is completely irrelevant and is the worst Sorcerer archetype. It is NEVER EVER worth playing due to the loss of bonus feats. If you want to play a Sorcerer, Seeker and X-blooded are outright superior with the choice between them depending on what you want to do: disables/debuffs or damage.

Originally posted by Liecon:

once you get level 9 spells and usinge the grandmaster rod you can even bypass immunites so you can use this on deskari for example even tho hes normally immune to compulsion

Grandmaster's Rod works only with instantaneous spells (i.e. damage and instant death), it doesn't work with spells that have a non-instant duration like all the Enchantment spells regardless of whether they're Compulsions or not. This is the reason why a pure Enchantment build like you're suggesting is no longer viable, if you want to beat 100% of the game content with your caster. Enchanter-Evoker and Enchanter-Conjurer dual school specialists are needed for that so that the backup school can be used against mind-affecting immune enemies.

[Liecon]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Originally posted by Liecon:

or you can go 15 levels into Sorcerer base class or (overwhelming mage)

Overwhelming Mage is completely irrelevant and is the worst Sorcerer archetype. It is NEVER EVER worth playing due to the loss of bonus feats. If you want to play a Sorcerer, Seeker and X-blooded are outright superior with the choice between them depending on what you want to do: disables/debuffs or damage.

Overwhelming mage is just for extra spell penetration you don't need a lot of feats as a pure spell cast so the bonus feats for me are meh

and seeker sorcerer loses its level 15 bloodline ability witch is plus 2 spell penetration from fey bloodline and plus 2 dc from arcane bloodline but if you want a battle sorcerer then seeker is great yea

Originally posted by Liecon:

once you get level 9 spells and usinge the grandmaster rod you can even bypass immunites so you can use this on deskari for example even tho hes normally immune to compulsion

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Grandmaster's Rod works only with instantaneous spells (i.e. damage and instant death), it doesn't work with spells that have a non-instant duration like all the Enchantment spells regardless of whether they're Compulsions or not. This is the reason why a pure Enchantment build like you're suggesting is no longer viable, if you want to beat 100% of the game content with your caster. Enchanter-Evoker and Enchanter-Conjurer dual school specialists are needed for that so that the backup school can be used against mind-affecting immune enemies.

didn't know the grandmaster rod worked like that thank you for the information

and yea if your on a higher difficulty then it sucks i just mentioned it because of the cool synergy with azata

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Liecon:

Overwhelming mage is just for extra spell penetration you don't need a lot of feats as a pure spell cast so the bonus feats for me are meh

Spell penetration is a useless stat. Chapters 1-2 are played while utterly ignoring SR and starting from chapter 3 any full caster penetrates everything effortlessly. The feats are extremely important for any type of spellcaster: ray, DC caster, AoE damage dealer. Yes, even ray casters need bonus feats, because they have to wear the Hide Armor of Elemental Carnage without spell failure, if they want to maximize their damage.

Originally posted by Liecon:

and seeker sorcerer loses its level 15 bloodline ability witch is plus 2 spell penetration from fey bloodline and plus 2 dc from arcane bloodline but if you want a battle sorcerer then seeker is great yea

+2 spellpen at level 15 is absolutely worthless. At that level you're already penetrating any SR without effort. Seeker Sorcerer who takes the Arcane bloodline as a Second Bloodline gets the level 15 School Power +2 spell DC boost.

[GunStarX]

Crossblooded sorcerer with an enchantment focus is really fun for azata. Take Fey (primary) and undead bloodline, and for the mythic 2nd bloodline take Arcane.

The best jokes mythic ability let's you cc a huge portion of the game with one shot. For enemies immune to prone you have stuff like overwhelming grief. You can also get a level of loremaster and take greater command for the ultimate cc spell,

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by GunStarX:

Crossblooded sorcerer with an enchantment focus is really fun for azata. Take Fey (primary) and undead bloodline, and for the mythic 2nd bloodline take Arcane.

The best jokes mythic ability let's you cc a huge portion of the game with one shot. For enemies immune to prone you have stuff like overwhelming grief. You can also get a level of loremaster and take greater command for the ultimate cc spell,

Hideous Laughter was specifically fixed to affect enemies immune to Prone condition... at least in the patch notes.

[Darklord]

Originally posted by GunStarX:

Crossblooded sorcerer with an enchantment focus is really fun for azata. Take Fey (primary) and undead bloodline, and for the mythic 2nd bloodline take Arcane.

The best jokes mythic ability let's you cc a huge portion of the game with one shot. For enemies immune to prone you have stuff like overwhelming grief. You can also get a level of loremaster and take greater command for the ultimate cc spell,

Wasn't Best Jokes nerfed? I read the DC on the extra targets is way lower.

Daniel.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Darklord:

Wasn't Best Jokes nerfed? I read the DC on the extra targets is way lower.
Daniel.

It was bugged. Then it got unbugged in a patch. I haven't tested any enchantments in the current patch.

[Icedfate]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

[
Spell penetration is a useless stat. Chapters 1-2 are played while utterly ignoring SR and starting from chapter 3 any full caster penetrates everything effortlessly. The feats are extremely important for any type of spellcaster: ray, DC caster, AoE damage dealer. Yes, even ray casters need bonus feats, because they have to wear the Hide Armor of Elemental Carnage without spell failure, if they want to maximize their damage.

if spell penetration is a useless feat, then why do 95% of all spellcaster builds take both spell pen and greater spell pen?

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

if spell penetration is a useless feat, then why do 95% of all spellcaster builds take both spell pen and greater spell pen?

Spell penetration is a meaningless stat in the sense that it's extremely easy to not just stack sufficiently, but to overstack without even realizing. The game has so many sources of spell penetration that almost any particular source becomes irrelevant on its own. Even Mythic Spell Penetration which is a huge bonus scaling up to +10 can be safely ignored on at least 3 mythic paths. Once you reach chapter 3, you have so many sources of spell penetration from feats, items and even from spells and domain abilities that you don't have to worry about hitting any SR roadblocks as a full caster. You lost a couple of +2 spellpen bonuses? Who cares, they don't matter since there are others to compensate.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

Azata can make for amazing spellcasting! Zippy Magic is an absolutely incredible mythic feat, and making enemies re-roll all successful saves against your spells is super good too.

Tbh since Azata has no merged spellbook, they can work with just about any class or build. Even something like Fighter can be a wonderful Azata.

[sbudy]

Hi. I won't play any kind of sorcerer since I just now finishing a sorcerer play-through... So I'm going for the wizard option this time, methinks