Lead blade not stacking with Enlarge person?

[Wither]

As mention above, Hurricane bow still stack just fine, though. I am very confusing.
Not sure if it is a bug or design intend. Any opinion?

[Silyon]

Intended, I think. Both give size bonuses, and size bonuses don't stack. While it's true that Enlarge targets the character and Lead Blade technically targets the weapon, the game engine doesn't have the ability to make the distinction between character and item. This makes Lead blade a strictly better version of Enlarge person, since it doesn't hit you with an AC penalty for most of the same benefits.

[DarkFenix]

Not intended, it's a bug, they stack in pnp. Lead blades and gravity bow make your weapon count as one size larger than they are, enlarge person makes them literally one size larger. A different effect achieving the same type of effect, thus they stack by RAW.

[Silyon]

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Not intended, it's a bug, they stack in pnp. Lead blades and gravity bow make your weapon count as one size larger than they are, enlarge person makes them literally one size larger. A different effect achieving the same type of effect, thus they stack by RAW.

I hate the RAW argument so much. Wrath, this game and not the adventure path, is not the same as the tabletop game. Differences exist, a lot of them. Whether it works in tabletop is irrelevant, and even then the answer would be "ask your DM" because DM's ruling trumps RAW in 100% of cases, according to RAW itself.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine. Question still stands about whether it's a bug or intended, and I'm leaning towards intended because of how the engine treats buffs. That said, the fact that Hurricane bow is apparently not working the same for OP means one of them is bugged or has an oversight going on. Take your pick which.

[Babbles]

I thought it stacked in Kingmaker, sure it isn't a bug?

[Wither]

Originally posted by Silyon:

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Not intended, it's a bug, they stack in pnp. Lead blades and gravity bow make your weapon count as one size larger than they are, enlarge person makes them literally one size larger. A different effect achieving the same type of effect, thus they stack by RAW.

I hate the RAW argument so much. Wrath, this game and not the adventure path, is not the same as the tabletop game. Differences exist, a lot of them. Whether it works in tabletop is irrelevant, and even then the answer would be "ask your DM" because DM's ruling trumps RAW in 100% of cases, according to RAW itself.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine. Question still stands about whether it's a bug or intended, and I'm leaning towards intended because of how the engine treats buffs. That said, the fact that Hurricane bow is apparently not working the same for OP means one of them is bugged or has an oversight going on. Take your pick which.

I don't know.
My SS still be able to use Perfect Strike even after deplete arcane pool until last patch.
It is hard to tell whether it is a bug or it is a feature.
Also, Vital Strike used to get crits and Spirited Charge used to work with iterative attack, you can even Vital Strike and charge. Not to mention the blasted Elemental barrage.
And they change those to align with RAW.
Why don't they just give us the good things?

[RandomDude2018]

I may be wrong here (it's been some time) but the last time i played the game it worked this way ---> You had to cast Lead Blades before Enlarge Person. NOT the other way around.

Also on my computer it did not show on the character screen but it did show in the combat log.

[Wither]

Originally posted by RandomDude2018:

I may be wrong here (it's been some time) but the last time i played the game it worked this way ---> You had to cast Lead Blades before Enlarge Person. NOT the other way around.

Also on my computer it did not show on the character screen but it did show in the combat log.

I did exactly that. The detail sheet goes like 2d4 (widesweep) > 2d6 (leadblade) > 2d6 (enlargeperson) with GVS total of 8d6. It did show up in calculation, but wrong number?
Sad.

***need to add that SS perfect stirke + vital force result in weapon roll at 48 dmg /w total damage of 60. It's not just UI bug.

[DarkFenix]

Originally posted by Silyon:

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Not intended, it's a bug, they stack in pnp. Lead blades and gravity bow make your weapon count as one size larger than they are, enlarge person makes them literally one size larger. A different effect achieving the same type of effect, thus they stack by RAW.

I hate the RAW argument so much. Wrath, this game and not the adventure path, is not the same as the tabletop game. Differences exist, a lot of them. Whether it works in tabletop is irrelevant, and even then the answer would be "ask your DM" because DM's ruling trumps RAW in 100% of cases, according to RAW itself.

Sorry, pet peeve of mine. Question still stands about whether it's a bug or intended, and I'm leaning towards intended because of how the engine treats buffs. That said, the fact that Hurricane bow is apparently not working the same for OP means one of them is bugged or has an oversight going on. Take your pick which.

The game is based directly on the pnp ruleset, and while Owlcat have taken considerable liberty with interpreting various rules, things like "what stacks with what" is an extremely fundamental core rule. Changing that would be like changing magic to work off a mana pool instead of how it works in Pathfinder.

And if your solution to it all is "ask the DM", why come here and sling mud at other people's input, why not just advise OP to contact Owlcat since apparently only they can possible tell?

[Raikon]

When I took this picture it stacked.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2850929547

Augest something of last year. So its either a new change, or a new bug. Either way it worked then.

[Wither]

Woe me. This is what I get.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2958888454

[Babbles]

Originally posted by Wither:

Woe me. This is what I get.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2958888454

Considering it is actually listing Lead Blades I assume it is a bug.

[hilburnashua]

Vital Strike still gets crits. It just doesn't multiply the bonus damage that was already multiplied by Mythic Vital Strike. Instead the multiplier from criting is applied to your base bonus damage and that is added to the multiplied bonus damage from Mythic Vital Strike. Not sure if the game was multiplying the bonus dice added by Vital Strike earlier. If it was, that was a bug

[Wither]

Originally posted by hilburnashua:

Vital Strike still gets crits. It just doesn't multiply the bonus damage that was already multiplied by Mythic Vital Strike. Instead the multiplier from criting is applied to your base bonus damage and that is added to the multiplied bonus damage from Mythic Vital Strike. Not sure if the game was multiplying the bonus dice added by Vital Strike earlier. If it was, that was a bug

It used to be 2x or 3x the WHOLE thing. You can just Google the ridiculous damage number people post on the internet.

When I want to try that, it happens to be at time they push out another patch.
Speaking of bad luck.

[Wither]

It is definitely a bug. Suddenly I want to try it with other weapons, turn out other weapon EXCEPT Great Axe got their dice count update to correct value.

[hilburnashua]

Originally posted by Wither:

Originally posted by hilburnashua:

Vital Strike still gets crits. It just doesn't multiply the bonus damage that was already multiplied by Mythic Vital Strike. Instead the multiplier from criting is applied to your base bonus damage and that is added to the multiplied bonus damage from Mythic Vital Strike. Not sure if the game was multiplying the bonus dice added by Vital Strike earlier. If it was, that was a bug

It used to be 2x or 3x the WHOLE thing. You can just Google the ridiculous damage number people post on the internet.

When I want to try that, it happens to be at time they push out another patch.
Speaking of bad luck.

Oh, I absolutely know that. I had a Sosiel build using an Elven Curved Blade that critted on a Greater Vital Strike in the 800s. But that isn't quite correct in how the multipliers should be working. Cannot remember if it was multiplying the extra dice from Vital Strike or not before, but it isn't now which is correct.

It is supposed to be "When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple."

So, the way it is working now isn't quite correct, but it is a lot close to how it should work.