How do i make Dispel Magic work?

[TamTroll]

Every time i cast it to try and dispell an enemy's buffs, all i get is a long chain of "Failed to dispell X"'s. This is with a character with every spell penetration feat i can find.

What am i missing here?

[philip.j.campbell123]

It's probably just bad luck. But spell penetration is DEFINITELY irrelevant.

[TamTroll]

Originally posted by philip.j.campbell123:

It's probably just bad luck. But spell penetration is DEFINITELY irrelevant.

well balls.

[Adormus]

You can hover over the text in the log and see why it failed. It's usually your spell check DC that decides whether or not it works.

It's entirely possible that your spell check DC is too low for it to ever work on high level enemies.

[TaKo]

dispel uses 1d20 + your caster level + specific bonuses(i.e dispel focus) vs the spell affecting the target with the highest caster level affecting the target, in case you didnt know every spell effect on enemies has a specific caster level given to it, even the permanent duration ones

like the other person said, hover over the log to see why the dispel failed, likely the dispeler failed that check

dispel greater should function the same but with the the ability to dispel spells in an area if you so desire and to dispel multiple spells(RAW it should be 1 dispel per 4 caster levels but unless owlcat fixed it its infinite dispels)

[TamTroll]

Originally posted by Adormus:

You can hover over the text in the log and see why it failed. It's usually your spell check DC that decides whether or not it works.

It's entirely possible that your spell check DC is too low for it to ever work on high level enemies.

is it possible to cast dispel magic at a higher level in order to raise the spell check DC?

[Chronocide]

Originally posted by TamTroll:

Every time i cast it to try and dispell an enemy's buffs, all i get is a long chain of "Failed to dispell X"'s. This is with a character with every spell penetration feat i can find.

What am i missing here?

Spell penetration is unrelated. Hmmm....no idea why, but the game seems to entirely lack an explanation of how dispel magic works. It was there in the past, I'm pretty sure...

Should be:

"
Dispel Magic (Target): You can use dispel magic to end on ongoing spell that has been cast on a creature.

You make one dispel check (1d20 + your caster level) and compare that to the spell with highest caster level (DC = 11 + the spell's caster level). If successful, that spell ends. If not, compare the same result to the spell with the next highest caster level. Repeat this process until you have dispelled one spell affecting the target, or you have failed to dispel every spell.
"

So to improve your Dispel magic check, the only option is to improve your caster level. Mind you, that's caster level, not character level and not the level of the dispel magic casting (so no effect from heighten spell) which you cast.

Dispel magic is annoying in that you can't choose which spell effect is removed.

As for increasing caster level, most common option would be to take spell specialization: dispel magic.

[Chronocide]

Originally posted by TaKo:

dispel uses 1d20 + your caster level + specific bonuses(i.e dispel focus)

Is there dispel focus in this game? I think that one is pen and paper only.

We have dispel synergy, which penalizes the opponent AFTER we dispel something, but don't think dispel focus is a thing.

[TaKo]

Originally posted by Chronocide:

Is there dispel focus in this game? I think that one is pen and paper only.

TableTopTweaksBase adds it, a lot of basic PnP features got added through mods that i often forget they arent in the vanila game

[Moldon]

Oftentimes when it succeeds it usually dispels a friendly spell.
Dispel Magic is still for me one of the greatest mysteries of this game.
It seems it makes only one roll, and if it fails it wants to warn you about ALL the spells it could not dispel because it wants you to witness the entirety of the failure that just happened.
Greater dispel does nothing either most of the time. But the failure is greater too, so there's that..

I am glad I took the Lich path on my main playthrough because there's a spell called Corrupt Magic that actually dispels things very efficiently. I took every feat I could for Necromancy, maybe it has an impact, who knows?

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by TamTroll:

Originally posted by Adormus:

You can hover over the text in the log and see why it failed. It's usually your spell check DC that decides whether or not it works.

It's entirely possible that your spell check DC is too low for it to ever work on high level enemies.

is it possible to cast dispel magic at a higher level in order to raise the spell check DC?

Most of the ways to increase your chances of dispelling are through the mythic classes. Aeon and Trickster being the most powerful dispellers, Lich having a dispel that's also a good debuff for AC.

[Chronocide]

In Drezen, the jewelry trader seems to have "Googles of Pure Sight" which allow you to take 20 on the dispel check (1/day). 20k gold.

Wouldn't help the dispel check DC directly, but counts as rolling a natural 20 on said check, so it's the best result without modifying.

[Chronocide]

Originally posted by Commissar:

Oftentimes when it succeeds it usually dispels a friendly spell.
Dispel Magic is still for me one of the greatest mysteries of this game.
It seems it makes only one roll, and if it fails it wants to warn you about ALL the spells it could not dispel because it wants you to witness the entirety of the failure that just happened.
Greater dispel does nothing either most of the time. But the failure is greater too, so there's that..

I am glad I took the Lich path on my main playthrough because there's a spell called Corrupt Magic that actually dispels things very efficiently. I took every feat I could for Necromancy, maybe it has an impact, who knows?

Well, part of it is that in the pen and paper, there's also a very key mechanic called "counterspelling" which this game ditched entirely. Dispel magic is the less effective, but more generic, alternative to counterspelling.

With counterspelling, you'd "ready an action to counter spell", so your wizard or whatever would ready instead of acting (like delaying, but costs a standard action on your turn.)

Then when the opponent cast their spell, you'd first ID their spell with the knowledge/lore check, and upon identifying, you could, as an immediate action, attempt to cast the same spell if you had it ready. It's awkward because you have to have the spell they're going to cast ready to go and you waste your turn "counterspelling", but the key advantage is that counterspelling has no dispel check or caster level check, it just punches out the enemy spell regardless of the difference in caster levels (or spell slot used).

Was a good mechanic. That said, don't see it in the tabletop much, not because it's a bad mechanic, but because pathfinder has a zillion supplements and each supplement added new spells which make it rather impossible to know all the spells that could be used for counterspelling.

And then this game doesn't have the "ready" mechanic at all, so dunno how you'd implement it here.

[TaKo]

Originally posted by Chronocide:

Well, part of it is that in the pen and paper, there's also a very key mechanic called "counterspelling" which this game ditched entirely.

even if owlcat kept it it wouldnt be very useful since most things you want to dispel from enemies are applied on battle start passively, most common buff spell you see enemies cast after battle start is mirror image from vrocks and glabrezus and some cultists early on that insist on casting divine favor/power

[THAC0]

Originally posted by TaKo:

dispel uses 1d20 + your caster level + specific bonuses(i.e dispel focus) vs the spell affecting the target with the highest caster level affecting the target, in case you didnt know every spell effect on enemies has a specific caster level given to it, even the permanent duration ones

like the other person said, hover over the log to see why the dispel failed, likely the dispeler failed that check

dispel greater should function the same but with the the ability to dispel spells in an area if you so desire and to dispel multiple spells(RAW it should be 1 dispel per 4 caster levels but unless owlcat fixed it its infinite dispels)

also SR comes into effect
its kinda lolz and why some vet players who know da f-there talking about kinda secretly roll there eyes at Arcane casters over-all especly in this game.

[forkofspite]

Another item that helps: Robe of the Seven Sins (Treasure of the Midnight Isles - The Chase). It adds 3 to your caster level. (It also adds 1 to your spell DCs and gives a +5 competence bonus on checks to overcome spell resistance - neither of those help with dispel checks, though). IMO, it's an overpowered item, but I use it anyway (combined with brown-fur caster level +2 bump, extend metamagic, and greature enduring, 1 round/level spells become 24 hours.

For those mentioning the Goggles of Pure Sight ...

Originally posted by Chronocide:

In Drezen, the jewelry trader seems to have "Googles of Pure Sight" which allow you to take 20 on the dispel check (1/day). 20k gold.

Wouldn't help the dispel check DC directly, but counts as rolling a natural 20 on said check, so it's the best result without modifying.

... that's probably the best item to help your dispel checks. The item itself can only be activated once per day, but you can use the item's effect twice in a day (but not twice every day). The goggles provides a buff on your next dispel (or greater dispel). The buff makes it so your next dispel roll is automatically a 20.

The buff itself is permanent until used, so the effect can be used twice in a single day:
* activate the item
* rest
* cast dispel
* activate the item
* cast dispel

At this point, you won't be able to re-activate the item until after you rest again.