so "challenge evil"

[Valtaya]

paladin lvl 1 spell, actualy, when the NPC does not attack the paladin who cast it, the NPC is affected by sickening
I used it about a million times and not once the NPC suffered sickening and no they are not immune
actualy it is a wasted spellslot
I wonder if there is some way how to "agro" mobs in this "idiotic" game, I am sick of it, that every f... NPC runs past my tanks and kills the spellcasters within one round... there is no taunt, PCs are ghosts every mob can run through...

[.//slayer]

Have you tried using Vanish or Invisibility when your back-rank casters or archers get targeted?

I mostly play solo and don't have this problem, but during companion quests, when my naked and underleveled NPCs become targets, a quick potion of Vanish and running a few steps away usually solves the issue.

Even if monsters have a true sight, as long as they haven't reached your back-rankers yet, they will still drop the aggro.

And one more thing - when you initiate the combat, do you do it with your tank? I think some problems may come up if you start by throwing a fireball in the middle of the enemy group, which makes the enemies target the original caster instead of the closest character like the tank. If the tank goes in and attacks first, it ought to change up the enemy actions, too.

I used it about a million times and not once the NPC suffered sickening and no they are not immune

Could it be that enemies succeed their Will DC? I doubt that your paladin has a particularly high DC to apply the effect.

[Valtaya]

sometimes, I just dont have hundreds of "vanishing" stuff with me or spells and I am not a big fan of resting every 5 steps

hehe indeed I do but only when I face some low level enemies that do not bother me
usualy my "tank" is many steps ahead of the group and is actualy the first to see the enemies

[reidj062]

Going to agree with slayer. Any spell that is cast by a ranger or paladin has a terrible DC. Use their spells for buffs or healing whenever possible.

[canuck250]

Tanks keep aggro by landing hits, so something like divine favor or bless weapon are my goto for level 1 pallys. I often use the holy longsword you find in the maze on my paladin so favor gets used more but if I used say a scimitar then bless is stupid good (auto confirms crits on evil creatures).

For positioning, I use the manual groupings, I position my tank up high as I can, then my melee fighters back a bit or in the rear. This way when I am walking about and enter combat, my tank is the only one running in for the first few seconds.

[knowthyself2]

Originally posted by reidj062:

Going to agree with slayer. Any spell that is cast by a ranger or paladin has a terrible DC. Use their spells for buffs or healing whenever possible.

That's always been a weakness in Pathfinder/Dnd3.5. Low level spells become scarcely worth using in the end game, and a good chunk of the Paladin/ranger spellbook is useless

[Feels Ranger Man]

Originally posted by Valtaya:

paladin lvl 1 spell, actualy, when the NPC does not attack the paladin who cast it, the NPC is affected by sickening
I used it about a million times and not once the NPC suffered sickening and no they are not immune
actualy it is a wasted spellslot
I wonder if there is some way how to "agro" mobs in this "idiotic" game, I am sick of it, that every f... NPC runs past my tanks and kills the spellcasters within one round... there is no taunt, PCs are ghosts every mob can run through...

You have to understand the mechanics of the game, but yes, 'Challenge Evil' is a noob trap because it feels absolutely useless with the enemies you face because they all have a very high spell DC and Paladin spell penetration is garbage, even early game. I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't know why those particular taunt like spells use a spell DC check or maybe it's Will, either way it's very high rendering the skill useless outside of most difficulties.

[Drake]

Originally posted by Feels Ranger Man:

Originally posted by Valtaya:

paladin lvl 1 spell, actualy, when the NPC does not attack the paladin who cast it, the NPC is affected by sickening
I used it about a million times and not once the NPC suffered sickening and no they are not immune
actualy it is a wasted spellslot
I wonder if there is some way how to "agro" mobs in this "idiotic" game, I am sick of it, that every f... NPC runs past my tanks and kills the spellcasters within one round... there is no taunt, PCs are ghosts every mob can run through...

You have to understand the mechanics of the game, but yes, 'Challenge Evil' is a noob trap because it feels absolutely useless with the enemies you face because they all have a very high spell DC and Paladin spell penetration is garbage, even early game. I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't know why those particular taunt like spells use a spell DC check or maybe it's Will, either way it's very high rendering the skill useless outside of most difficulties.

They are trash because you don't spec into charisma ans spell feats, not because it's a paladin, even if only having 4 spell levels is not helping.
There are charisma "caster" paladin builds, but I don't think any archetype present would apply (maybe hospitalier but that's it), and it's a very niche concept that you would use only on specific campaigns (like facing ghosts, doing exorcisms etc.). It's not something that I would recommend in wotr.

[Valtaya]

yah thats my problem with the game, it actualy goes the min max know the best build road... but RPG pen&paper are not about that, playes should be able to win even when they do not have the best build and even gimp themselves, especialy on normal... players should win with a base group of fighter rogue cleric mage and not knowing beforehand what feats they have to take to still be able to compete.

[Soul]

Originally posted by Valtaya:

yah thats my problem with the game, it actualy goes the min max know the best build road... but RPG pen&paper are not about that, playes should be able to win even when they do not have the best build and even gimp themselves, especialy on normal... players should win with a base group of fighter rogue cleric mage and not knowing beforehand what feats they have to take to still be able to compete.

actually aggro isnt that hard to manage when you know how it works in this game.... I have a sorcerer main and im able to manage aggro fine....

positioning helps for me.... I have my sorcerer right behind the tank like 5 foot step away from frontline tank... and offtanks to the sides... so if enemy does try to target my sorcerer first and comes in.... I can just 5 foot step away and cast still... while all my tanks are ready to outflank and beat em in the trap.... their close enough to sorcerer to perform full round attacks on anything that tries to touch my sorcerer... of course early game with spells like mage armor and shield plus amulet of natural armor and ring of protection... my sorcerer actually has the second highest AC besides the horses who have highest... lol

but pretty much it boils down to how combat starts.... if its a fight where you can trigger the fight normally then the main aggro is for whoever started the fight... for instance having an archer shoot a group of enemies.... in turn based the enemies will all wanna go for the archer.... so in that case i'd position the tanks and melee in a way that it will provoke attacks of opportunity as they walk by and close enough to archer that I can pick up aggro then.... or just charge in with tank only first if on RTWP so they provoke everyone....

for fights that start from cutscenes such as the necromancer in market square where a cutscene triggers then fight starts.... the focus is gonna be on main character regardless of position.... (lol tested it before with my sorcerer FAAAAR away from that event... my sorcerer was like 3 screens away when I triggered it and all the enemies wanted to travel straight to my main regardless..... )... but in that case you can prepare like buffs and CC the areas.... as well as being close to the tank.... if my sorcerer is close enough behind the tank the enemies cant charge in and attack my sorcerer cause tank is blocking line of sight... there are variations in other parts of the game... Ulbrigs first quest for instance at the stone of voices cutscene fight... he becomes a prime target for the enemies due to it being his personal quest I suppose.... so buffing him with mage armor, blur, death ward, and protection from evil communal helps him act as a good defense for when enemies are gonna walk in and try to either dominate or energy drain and waste their turns on trying it on him....

[Valtaya]

yah... a few times I left the whole group in another room and moved with just the tank 3 rooms ahead and initiated the fight and even the NPC I did hit turned away and moved 3 rooms!!!!!!!!! to my wizard... sure when he initiates with a fireball or the archer, yah thats on me, but that? I dont know. The game definitely need some sort of taunt and attack of opportunity need to be more devastating... when a mob gets hit 3 times and still has above 75% HP and have like 16 attacks and cann kill your light armored people in one round, than the whole attack of opportunity stuff is pointless.