demons, daemons and devils

[Valtaya]

... are three different creatures, each evil and dangerous in their own way.

Yet the "worldwound" is a portal to the Abyss and you fight demons, than again it talks about archdemons and various layers as if it were hell (devils), and you fight demons (balor, glabretzu etc) on the one hand and devils (succubus, incubus) on the other. I gues I am missing something.

[steventirey]

The Abyss has multiple layers. In older D&D, it had 666 known layers. I don't know how many Pathfinder says it has, just that it has multiple layers. And the succubus (and their male counterparts). The devil version is the erinyes.

In other words, everything you mention is demons. Normal demons (balor, glabrezu, succubus, incubus), really powerful demons (archdemons) coming from a multilayered demonic plane (the Abyss).

Mephistopheles is the only real exception, being a devil instead. So there are some exceptions, but the vast majority of what you fight are indeed demons.

[Yannir]

Both the Abyss and Hell have layers. It's just Hell has exactly 9 while the Abyss has infinite layers.

Succubi and Incubi are demons in Pathfinder like they were demons in D&D during 3.5 Ed. In D&D they were devils at some point and in 5th Edition they are just fiends that can be both.

[hilburnashua]

Erinyes are nothing like succubi. Erinyes are based on the Greek concept of the Furies, they wreak wrathful, over the top, vengence.

But otherwise the previous posters have it nailed.

I don't know why there are daemon in act 4 other then some maybe acting as mercenaries and there isn't any reason why daemons cannot work with demons. As far as I understand it, in Pathfinder there isn't even the traditional warfare between demons and devils like there was back in AD&D (the Blood Wars).

[Valtaya]

Originally posted by steventirey:

The Abyss has multiple layers. In older D&D, it had 666 known layers. I don't know how many Pathfinder says it has, just that it has multiple layers. And the succubus (and their male counterparts). The devil version is the erinyes.

In other words, everything you mention is demons. Normal demons (balor, glabrezu, succubus, incubus), really powerful demons (archdemons) coming from a multilayered demonic plane (the Abyss).

Mephistopheles is the only real exception, being a devil instead. So there are some exceptions, but the vast majority of what you fight are indeed demons.

Originally posted by Yannir:

Both the Abyss and Hell have layers. It's just Hell has exactly 9 while the Abyss has infinite layers.

Succubi and Incubi are demons in Pathfinder like they were demons in D&D during 3.5 Ed. In D&D they were devils at some point and in 5th Edition they are just fiends that can be both.

I see, thx

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Valtaya:

... are three different creatures, each evil and dangerous in their own way.

All three are distinctive Outsider races and share about as much in common as Dwarves, Elves and Orcs.

Originally posted by Valtaya:

Yet the "worldwound" is a portal to the Abyss and you fight demons,

And the Abyss is what the Outher Sphere of Chaotic Evil energy is called. It is a primeval plane of selfserving entropy.

Originally posted by Valtaya:

than again it talks about archdemons and various layers as if it were hell (devils)

Because there are various domains within the Abyss. Archdemons are Demigods or rather as powerful as Demigods. And as demigods they have the power to shape a piece of the unfettered raw primeval energies into a shape that is pleasing to them.

Nocticula used it to shape it into the midnight isles with its main city, where Art and Culture was able to exist. Baphomet shaped his part of the Abyss into the Ivory Labyrinth. Deskari used it to shape his area into the Rasping Rifts, an insect infested hellscape full of canyons and chasms.

Originally posted by Valtaya:

and you fight demons (balor, glabretzu etc) on the one hand and devils (succubus, incubus) on the other. I gues I am missing something.

Succubi and Incubi are not devils in Pathfinder. They are Demons.

The "Evil" side of the Primeval Energies is represented by Fiends. Fiends being the Opposite of Angels in Pathfinder. Fiends, like Angels, can be found among all 3 realms of Order (Law), Purity (Neutral) and Disorder (Chaos). Each of these realms have their own Plane of existence.

Orderly Selfishness is Hell. Pure Selfishness is Abaddon and Entropic Selfiness is the Abyss.

The denizens of these realm are manifold, but generally creatures born from their respective energies are Devils (Lawful Evil), Daemons (Neutral Evil) and Demons (Chaotic Evil).

For the Good side of the equation its Archon (Lawful Good) residing in Heaven, Agathions (Neutral Good) residing in Nirvana and Azata (Chaotic Good) residing in Elysium.

On the Neutral side of things we do have the Realm of Axis (lawful Neutral) with the Aeons, The Boneyard (True Neutral) with Psychopomps and the Maelstrome (Chaotic Neutral) with the Proteans.

Each of these realms also have other inhabitants like Titans and some Dragons. Then there are also border areas. Like the Shadowplane, the First World and such.

And of course there is also pure energy realms like the Plane called Creation Forge and the Void, the Plane of destruction. Among those are also the Elemental Planes (Wood, Metal, Fire, Earth, Wind and Water)


Also, because this isn't complicated enough, there are also Demiplanes and about every plane has multiple realms in them, because each plane is effectively about as exhaustive as the Material Plane and just like you have the Egyptian Culture down in Orision near Katapesh with its Desert setting... and the Oriental Setting with the Tian... and the Aztechs and what have you on the Material Plane... you have different settings within the Planes. As mentioned previously in the Abyss this would be places like the Ivory Labyrinth, the Rasping Rifts or Nocticula's Midnight Isles. Depending on when you play in the Pathfinder Setting there are between 10 and 15 Demon Lords ruling over the Abyss, each with their own little realm... and each with their own little hierarchy regarding who is more powerful than who.

At one point even Lamashtu was a Demon Lord.

[Immortal Reaver]

That city has probably most diverse range of races being in city, thanks to being open to free trade, assasin guild accepting anyone and order by Nocticula to not kill visitors (not like most demons abide by it when guards are not looking).

[Immortal Reaver]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Baphomet shaped his part of the Abyss into the Ivory Labyrinth.

Baphomet is exception, he stole Labyrinth from Hell and moved it into ther Abyss.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Immortal Reaver:

Baphomet is exception, he stole Labyrinth from Hell and moved it into ther Abyss.

Okay, fine... Baphomet didn't shape it himself, but instead used his Demigod powers to move a small part of another plane into his native plane as a big "F off" gesture to the God Asmodeus who imprisoned him in the Labyrinth.

Hardly makes much of a difference if he shaped it himself or transloctated an entire part of another realm using their Demigodly powers.

[steventirey]

Originally posted by hilburnashua:

Erinyes are nothing like succubi. Erinyes are based on the Greek concept of the Furies, they wreak wrathful, over the top, vengence.

I meant more along the lines of the idea of the evil winged lady. The succubus is the demonic version, the erinyes is the diabolic version.

[Duder]

demons, daemons and devils

Three classes of outsider each with their own plane and alignment

Demon - Abyss, Chaotic Evil
Daemon - Abaddon, Neutral Evil
Devil - Hell, Lawful Evil

[Uzkin]

Also, the demon rulers of Abyss are called demon lords, not "archdemons". The devil rulers of Hell are called archdevils.