How to opt-out from 3rd party data-tracking?

[Kanakarhu]

Issue with the 3rd party tracking has been resolved.

Starrok eredeti hozzászólása:

The software in question will be removed within 24 hours and all already collected data purged. Old EULA will return. Hotfix is already in production. Sorry for all the negative emotions caused, we've learned a lot from this mistake.

Original post:
So, The Game developer has added third-party tracking software without providing and updated EULA. The EULA cannot be read without the download of the game which makes this whole thing even more interesting. Any thoughts?

I'm pretty sure this violates EU consumer rights so, I think we can to get money returned since this software is modified/altered in away that differences it with the original program?

Update 1:
Here is the EULA 3.1 for those who don't want to download the tracking tool, provided by my steam friend:


The User hereby agrees that Owlcat Games may collect, store for as long as the User is using the Software and not more than 1 year thereafter, and otherwise process information on the Software being used by the User, such as Device and IP address, platform, and operating system version, Device model, timestamp of the Software usage, Software version and ID number, information concerning the hardware and software installed on the User's Device, and any other anonymous technical and statistical information, which Owlcat Games requires in order to identify and eliminate problems with the operation of the Software, to improve the Software, and for marketing purposes. Moreover, Owlcat Games may process and store anonymous information gathered by means of the Software usage outlined above for an indefinite term. Thereby, the User hereby agrees that Owlcat Games has the right to upload software program files to User's Device, that will record CPU, RAM, operating system, video card, sound card, software and application of the other developers, peripherals, geolocation and any other anonymous technical and statistical information from User's computer. The User also agrees that Owlcat shall have the right to transfer the said anonymous information to its subcontractors, performing Game development, and vendors providing services necessary for operation of the Game.

[Naxterra]

3. USE OF DATA
3.1. The User hereby agrees that Owlcat Games may collect, store for an indefinite term and otherwise process anonymous information on the Software using by the User, information on hardware and software installed on the User’s Device, and any other anonymous technical and statistical information, which Owlcat Games needs in order to identify and eliminate problems with operation of the Software, to improve the Software, and for marketing purposes. Thereby, the User hereby agrees that Owlcat Games has the right to upload software program files to User’s Device, that will record CPU, RAM, operating system, video card, sound card, software and application of the other developers, peripherals, geolocation and any other anonymous technical and statistical information from User’s computer. The User also agrees that Owlcat shall have the right to transfer the said anonymous information to its subcontractors, performing Game development, and vendors providing services necessary for operation of the Game.
3.2. At all times any information collected and being processed under this EULA will be treated in accordance with our Privacy Policy available at https://owlcat.games/privacy incorporated in this Agreement by the reference. All information collected is completely anonymous and cannot be traced back to an individual User.

What the hell is this?

[mk11]

Spanks Masterson eredeti hozzászólása:

mk11 eredeti hozzászólása:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/eventcomments/3812910932505799980/

Thank you. Unfortunately, my earlier statements haven't changed. The EULA is still outrageously invasive. In order to play the game I must agree to allow the developer to monitor and upload virtually everything about my PC to them. Additionally, I must also give them permission to upload tracking and monitoring software to my PC. I can't remember the last time I was forced to accept a EULA to play a single-player game. I don't have to accept a EULA to play most multi-player games, for that matter. And I DEFINITELY don't recall ever giving another game the permission to upload tracking and monitoring software to my PC. I would never accept that, just like I'm not accepting that now.

Short of Facebook-levels of invasiveness (which is as extreme as EULA's get), I'm not sure how they could make the EULA worse and I'm not sure why any player would accept such.

This topic was about updates to the EULA. Those updates have been rolled back. You may have issues with the original EULA but that is not the same as saying the change was not rolled back.

Most games I see these days have EULAs and Privacy Policies. Many of them even remember to put the EULA on the Steam page.

I have difficulty understanding how you think game developers will fix bugs if they don't record things like "operating system, video card, etc.".

You need to read the whole EULA including the privacy policy if you want to understand it.

The main thing that makes the EULA reasonable is that any of that information only goes to the game developers and is not generally sold.

This was the issue with the brief update in that it passed information to a third-party.

[Naxterra]

mk11 eredeti hozzászólása:

Spanks Masterson eredeti hozzászólása:

Thank you. Unfortunately, my earlier statements haven't changed. The EULA is still outrageously invasive. In order to play the game I must agree to allow the developer to monitor and upload virtually everything about my PC to them. Additionally, I must also give them permission to upload tracking and monitoring software to my PC. I can't remember the last time I was forced to accept a EULA to play a single-player game. I don't have to accept a EULA to play most multi-player games, for that matter. And I DEFINITELY don't recall ever giving another game the permission to upload tracking and monitoring software to my PC. I would never accept that, just like I'm not accepting that now.

Short of Facebook-levels of invasiveness (which is as extreme as EULA's get), I'm not sure how they could make the EULA worse and I'm not sure why any player would accept such.

This topic was about updates to the EULA. Those updates have been rolled back. You may have issues with the original EULA but that is not the same as saying the change was not rolled back.

Most games I see these days have EULAs and Privacy Policies. Many of them even remember to put the EULA on the Steam page.

I have difficulty understanding how you think game developers will fix bugs if they don't record things like "operating system, video card, etc.".

You need to read the whole EULA including the privacy policy if you want to understand it.

The main thing that makes the EULA reasonable is that any of that information only goes to the game developers and is not generally sold.

This was the issue with the brief update in that it passed information to a third-party.

Issue is, they should collect information only related to the software which they are providing. Getting full inventory of the installed apps, geolocation info, other "statistical and technical (it must be clear of which information will be taken)" information is not required for the development. Also they mentioned that this will be used for marketing too.

At least it is easy to block these telemetries at DNS level.

[Spanks Masterson]

mk11 eredeti hozzászólása:

This was the issue with the brief update in that it passed information to a third-party.

The EULA is still giving the devs the right to transfer your data to third-parties: "Owlcat shall have the right to transfer the said anonymous information to its subcontractors, performing Game development, and vendors providing services necessary for operation of the Game."

^ "subcontractors" means "anyone". It also means "third parties".
^ "performing Game development" means "for any reason" because any and all data could be argued as needed to develop a game.
^ "vendors providing services necessary for operation of the Game" means "anyone" and "third parties". It's the developers that decide what is necessary to "for operation of the game".

Additionally, they collect any/all data which allows them "to improve the Software, and for marketing purposes". This means "any data, for any reason" because any data could be used to "improve the software" and any data could be used for "marketing purposes".

Lastly, "anonymous" doesn't mean that your data is auto scrubbed and devs have no clue where it comes from (anyone in IT knows how silly that concept is). It simply means that the devs claim that they aren't actively tracking individuals. This doesn't actually stop them (or 3rd parties) from actively tracking individuals.

Bottom line: There is absolutely no need for any game to upload tracking and monitoring software to your PC, nor is there any need for any game to force players to send their data off for marketing purposes. The vast majority of games that have monitoring like this also allow players to choose to opt-out. This is a blatantly invasive EULA.

[lx]

what you must understand, is that legalism is a scam. you should not agree with any of that.
you make contracts only with the (d)evil, not with g(o)od.
...as always, everything is best hidden in plain sight

[pckirk]

The current EULA has those statements in there due to the following.

1) The Unity Game Engine, sends info back to Unity about the unity engine crashes, status, pc specs, oS specs etc., UNITY game engine users are required to provide this info to Unity. part of the agreement to use said engine.

2) the internal Bug reporting system (ALT+B) sends game data, pc specs, OS specs, crash reports, dx reports, and game save information to the dev support team, to aid in fixing these reported bug reports. there is zero issue here. in the game settings, you can disable the use of the unity game engine data. and as long as you dont use (ALT+B) in game, then no info will be sent to Owlcat game dev support team.

there is no other info being sent out via this game. and if your that paranoid, either move the game to a non internet pc, or use a good multi layered firewall, that gives you full control of both outgoing and incoming data packets.

[Sunday Driver]

So what is going on? Did they remove the spyware or not? They promised to go back to as it was before pages and some time back...yet it seems to have been a lie? Can we trust developers who lie about something like that? Hope someone can clarify on this as no one seems to really know.

[KocLobster]

Spanks Masterson eredeti hozzászólása:

mk11 eredeti hozzászólása:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1184370/eventcomments/3812910932505799980/

I'm not sure how they could make the EULA worse and I'm not sure why any player would accept such.

I thought that they walked back the invasive EULA almost immediately six months ago when they tried to push it? I only skimmed this thread but I take it they didn't actually do that?

I personally can't be bothered to care. Most of my career is in IT and even so, I barely care about this type of tracking. Whatever. Nearly all activity on the Internet is being tracked by some company. It's unavoidable in 2023.

If the original EULA I read 6 months ago when they pushed it still stands, that's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on Owlcat. But I care more about being able to play one of my favorite games of all time... than standing on principle, not accepting the EULA in order to not be tracked, and not being able to play WOTR.

[pckirk]

the stuff in the current EULA was always in the EULA since the release of the game. The added stuff relating to the AppsFlyer that was added into the EULA, WAS removed as of the hot patch released 12 hours after it was added. the current EULA is back to the same EULA that was in place since the game was released.

Play the game and have fun.

[rauchst]

pckirk eredeti hozzászólása:

the stuff in the current EULA was always in the EULA since the release of the game. The added stuff relating to the AppsFlyer that was added into the EULA, WAS removed as of the hot patch released 12 hours after it was added. the current EULA is back to the same EULA that was in place since the game was released.

Play the game and have fun.

I haven't played the game for a while and was thinking of getting back to it, so all this was new. Good to know, thanks!

Some tracking is unavoidable these days - having some experience in the tech industry I know some of it is absolutely necessary to keep up and develop the software. That is fine. It does seem that Owlcat went over the line before, good for them to fix things fast.

It worries me a bit how they didn't think it blatantly wrong to begin with, but Iet's hope they learned their lesson. If they do this the second time... Owlcat might fly out of my games library for good. I like what they're doing, but I for one am not going to support a company that tries to install actual spyware without clearly allowing me to opt out.

[Triple G]

rauchst eredeti hozzászólása:

I for one am not going to support a company that tries to install actual spyware without clearly allowing me to opt out.

"3.3 Other Data You Explicitly Submit
We will collect and process Personal Data whenever you explicitly provide it to us or send it as part of communication with others on Steam, e.g. in Steam Community Forums, chats, or when you provide feedback or other user generated content. This data includes:

Information that you post, comment or follow in any of our Content and Services;
Information sent through chat;
Information you provide when you request information or support from us or purchase Content and Services from us, including information necessary to process your orders with the relevant payment merchant or, in case of physical goods, shipping providers;
Information you provide to us when participating in competitions, contests and tournaments or responding to surveys, e.g. your contact details."

"3.4 Your Use of the Steam Client and Websites
We collect a variety of information through your general interaction with the websites, Content and Services offered by Steam. Personal Data we collect may include, but is not limited to, browser and device information, data collected through automated electronic interactions and application usage data.
Likewise, we will track your process across our websites and applications to verify that you are not a bot and to optimize our services. "

"4. How Long We Store Data

We will only store your information as long as necessary..."

"5. Who Has Access to Data

Valve does not sell Personal Data. However, we may share or provide access to each of the categories of Personal Data we collect as necessary..."

------

Imho a god step into the direction without spyware would be to not use any smartphone. But somehow it´s convenient, and the industry realized that people actually value that way higher than some spyware, or data collection - so the whole web is about that nowadays. There´s more data collected than all processing power in the world could possibly process. Like they´re like seven or more years behind...

And there´s always an option to "opt out" - but it´s called "don´t use the service at all". Only works in the web though, as in real life only few would enter the shop and buy anything there if there was a guy at the front door who would say that You either need to sign the three pages paper in which they state their demands, or piss off and go elsewhere...