Greater enduring spells

[Moo]

So I am finally in Act 5 with a caster as my main character for the first time. I am wondering if I should select Greater Enduring Spells for my mythic ability. I remember seeing a while back from somewhere that is just a quality of life ability, and is not worth getting. I have also read others saying it's a must have ability...

[fox5s]

Depends. If you like your minute per level buffs, getting them to last 24 hours is nice. You didn't mention your Mythic Path but if you are Angel or Lich with a merged spellbook, you can make your round per level buffs last 24 hours by getting Enduring metamagic (probably using Favored metamagic Mythic) and reaching caster level 25.

[mk11]

If you have already got Enduring Spells then it is probably worth going Greater Enduring.

However, is your main making much use of buffs? Most main casters go for damage or instant kills.

In general, if you don't use a buff bot mod then the Enduring/Greater Enduring save a lot of effort, and mistakes, casting buffs. If you use a buff bot less important.

If this is your first play you don't know which encounters need pre-buffing so it is easier to always be pre-buffed.

[Deo]

Greater Enduing Spells is nice ability to have, if you do not like resting too much. Now, unlike in Kingmaker, there is no time limit. Unless you are doing Sadistic game design achievement, I see nothing bad in resting every 40 min or so. Maybe even more, if you feel like it. Secret ending is not year dependent, only month. So, even here developers made your life easier.
And for main character, which is BY FAR the best damage dealer in party, there are better Mythic abilities to pick.

[Moo]

This is not my first playthrough but first caster for main character. I took a little bit of this and that in terms of classes, so maybe I messed up my build. I am about done retaking Drezen, so my options are trickster, gold dragon, or legend. I just realized I can't retrain until after I retake Drezen, so I might need to reload an earlier save in Act 4, if I need to retrain.

[fox5s]

Ah! So a trickster atm. Again, if you like your minute per level buffs Greater Enduring Spell is a fine choice.

Oh! If you have access to the Cave Fangs spell, Enduring Spell kind of makes it OP. Try it out! :D

[Moo]

Originally posted by fox5s:

Depends. If you like your minute per level buffs, getting them to last 24 hours is nice. You didn't mention your Mythic Path but if you are Angel or Lich with a merged spellbook, you can make your round per level buffs last 24 hours by getting Enduring metamagic (probably using Favored metamagic Mythic) and reaching caster level 25.

Since I didn't go angel or lich, is it not recommended to get Greater Enduring Spells then? I am level 19 right now, I went 3 levels Zen Archer, 4 levels Vivisectionist, and 12 levels Ecclesitheurge.

[Moo]

Originally posted by mk11:

If you have already got Enduring Spells then it is probably worth going Greater Enduring.

However, is your main making much use of buffs? Most main casters go for damage or instant kills.

In general, if you don't use a buff bot mod then the Enduring/Greater Enduring save a lot of effort, and mistakes, casting buffs. If you use a buff bot less important.

If this is your first play you don't know which encounters need pre-buffing so it is easier to always be pre-buffed.

My main character is using a composite longbow, currently using Killing Paces. He seems to deal decent damage when I start off with him attacking first, but he doesn't hit as well as my melees. I kinda wanted him to be able to contribute in multiple roles.

[igor140]

Well, the whole point of cleric is to be a support character. IMO, that doesn't make for a great main character... but I hope you're enjoying it : )

Also IMO, I would say that GES is basically mandatory on a support caster. As you're aware, the endgame is functionally impossible without heavy buff spells, but the fewer resources (action economy and spell slots) you can spend setting those buffs, the more time you have to do things like attacking... or more likely healing because defenses stop mattering around Act 3.

[ÆtherNomad]

Originally posted by fox5s:

Depends. If you like your minute per level buffs, getting them to last 24 hours is nice. You didn't mention your Mythic Path but if you are Angel or Lich with a merged spellbook, you can make your round per level buffs last 24 hours by getting Enduring metamagic (probably using Favored metamagic Mythic) and reaching caster level 25.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you (in which case, please explain in more details, giving the specifics!), it actually doesn't work. I played an Angel playthrough and tried it. Sword of Heaven, even though it lasts more than 5 minutes with Everlasting flame, is NOT extended by Greater enduring spells. I made a lot research online to understand why people claimed the opposite, and as it turns out this was an unintended interaction that used to work at game release but was fixed very soon after it. Because Sword of Heaven is technically not a spell, it can't be extended that way. Picking Bestow the Divine doesn't change that fact either. And no, there is no spell in the Angel spellbook that grants the Sword of Heaven effect. On top of that, it should be worth mentioning that, even if this interaction worked, until you get Heavenly Host, only one character can be under the effect of Sword of Heaven at a time, so it wouldn't be all that useful in the end...

[igor140]

Everything you've just described is correct, but there are plenty of other buffs. I actually wasn't aware they had "fixed" Sword of Heaven (thanks for clarifying that!).

Winds of Vengeance, for example, was HUGELY helpful to my on my Oracle/ Angel playthrough, and would be very available to you, if your Cleric gets lvl 9 spells (not sure if it would with your class breakdown).

Angelic/ Frightful aspect are also really solid choices for Lvl 8 spells. I THINK there's an Angel spell that has some overlap, but it's another one that helped me a lot.

I think most spell levels have one or two really solid choices that are minute/ level.

Another side of this discussion that hasn't been raised yet: What would you choose otherwise?

I mean, there are a LOT of great answers to that question... but having most of our buffs on "autopilot" is pretty nice.

[Aetemes]

I personally really like greater enduring spell, as some of these minute spells are really good! crusaders edge for example amongst many...and I really just want to not keep rebuffing as much as possible. And with some combinations some round spells can even become 24 now that's hype!

It's hard to tell if you need it as I am not sure what spells are you running on your character...but frankly this game is buff and attack is best strategy which is..meh wish it wasn't like that..but I think it is. The less I have to do the buffing the more I can bear it lol....

[Moo]

Originally posted by igor140:

Well, the whole point of cleric is to be a support character. IMO, that doesn't make for a great main character... but I hope you're enjoying it : )

Also IMO, I would say that GES is basically mandatory on a support caster. As you're aware, the endgame is functionally impossible without heavy buff spells, but the fewer resources (action economy and spell slots) you can spend setting those buffs, the more time you have to do things like attacking... or more likely healing because defenses stop mattering around Act 3.

I think the main character is better than side characters in which ever role you choose for it, whether it be dps, cc, or support. I guess my main character is trying to be the superior support character. I was hoping if you provide good enough support for the party, maybe defenses can matter around Act 3.

[fox5s]

Originally posted by jeem1972:

Since I didn't go angel or lich, is it not recommended to get Greater Enduring Spells then? I am level 19 right now, I went 3 levels Zen Archer, 4 levels Vivisectionist, and 12 levels Ecclesitheurge.

It's not that it isn't still recommended. It's that you don't get the extra bonus of round per level duration spells getting Extended to 24 hours. It's still a fine upgrade. Having your Communal Resist Energy spells upgrade from 10 min duration to 24 hours is super nice (among other things).

Originally posted by ÆtherNomad:

Unless I'm misunderstanding you (in which case, please explain in more details, giving the specifics!), it actually doesn't work. I played an Angel playthrough and tried it. Sword of Heaven, even though it lasts more than 5 minutes with Everlasting flame, is NOT extended by Greater enduring spells. I made a lot research online to understand why people claimed the opposite, and as it turns out this was an unintended interaction that used to work at game release but was fixed very soon after it. Because Sword of Heaven is technically not a spell, it can't be extended that way. Picking Bestow the Divine doesn't change that fact either. And no, there is no spell in the Angel spellbook that grants the Sword of Heaven effect. On top of that, it should be worth mentioning that, even if this interaction worked, until you get Heavenly Host, only one character can be under the effect of Sword of Heaven at a time, so it wouldn't be all that useful in the end...

Pick a buff that lasts a round per level. Let's say Haste. Use the Extend Metamagic to double the duration. Now, assuming you can make it to caster level 25, the spell will last 50 rounds. Each round is 6 seconds which means 50 rounds is five minutes. Now your round per level buff will get noticed by Greater Enduring Spell to boost the duration to 24 hours.

As to your Sword of Heaven effect. A lot of the weapon buffs don't take properly. For example, the Army of Heaven level 10 angel spell should last an hour and get boosted by the Enduring Spell line. However, only the Mind Blank effect actually has its duration increased. The Holy Sword and Avenger's Blessing portions just last a round per level. Even when you cast the spell normally, it's not working as the spell description states.

I understand it happens most often when combining weapon effects into one spell. Holy sword has two effects and I understand you can lengthen one part but not the other. Again, bugged.

I would test again using another spell. Haste or Righteous Might are good examples. It is possible that the devs nerfed Greater Enduring Spell's interaction with round per level duration spells but I didn't notice it in any of the patch notes. It was definitely working before Enhanced Edition came out.

[Moo]

Originally posted by fox5s:

Ah! So a trickster atm. Again, if you like your minute per level buffs Greater Enduring Spell is a fine choice.

Oh! If you have access to the Cave Fangs spell, Enduring Spell kind of makes it OP. Try it out! :D

Cave fangs is already 10 min/level, is there really a need to make it 24 hrs? Maybe I am not thinking about using it correctly?

[Deo]

Cave Fangs losing duration for every trap placed. More duration = more traps. Spells sucks now tho, nerfed into oblivion (good riddance).