How to increase Ember's accuracy?

[Baltar777]

Hey everyone,

So Ember was doing well thru Act 1, it wasnt until the Gray Garrison I noticed her missing the majority of her projectile spells.

Now that I am in Act 2, shes really missing 7/10 shots.

I have been focusing on upgrading her Charisma, but what other stat would be better to get her things like Iceball and other projectile spells to make contact?

Thanks for your time

[dataseer21]

Ranged touch attacks use dexterity if memory serves. Plus if you are using them you actually need the feats point blank shot and the one that takes away the -4 when the enemy is in melee.

If you are talking about saves then the enemies saves are stupidly high. Also there is spell resistance so you need feats that penetrate spell resistance. I was just thinking about how ridiculous the enemies that owlcat faces against you are.

[Baltar777]

Originally posted by dataseer21:

Ranged touch attacks use dexterity if memory serves. Plus if you are using them you actually need the feats point blank shot and the one that takes away the -4 when the enemy is in melee.

Thanks for the advice. Would something like the Snowball/Ice Ball spell be considered a "Ranged Touch Attack", though? I didnt see that in the description, figured it was operating on the same principles as any typical Ranged spell.

Her hexes land, even if they get resisted, but her ranged spells just arent making contact with anything now.

Thanks again for your time

[dataseer21]

Originally posted by Baltar777:

Originally posted by dataseer21:

Ranged touch attacks use dexterity if memory serves. Plus if you are using them you actually need the feats point blank shot and the one that takes away the -4 when the enemy is in melee.

Thanks for the advice. Would something like the Snowball/Ice Ball spell be considered a "Ranged Touch Attack", though? I didnt see that in the description, figured it was operating on the same principles as any typical Ranged spell.

Her hexes land, even if they get resisted, but her ranged spells just arent making contact with anything now.

Thanks again for your time

Yeah snowball is a ranged touch attack. However you should note that it targets touch ac which is significantly lower than normal ac. The spell still needs to pass spell resistance though. So you might want to invest in spell penetration feats as well.

I noticed that the final bossish in act 4 had an AC of like 45 but a touch ac of 22 for example. So it is easier to hit them.

Demons have spell resistance so maybe could be what you are worried about as well. I'm doing a current run with a blaster mage along with some other games. I noticed that even people's prized kineticist needs to pass spell resistance with elemental spells.

Also the random number generator for games like this are kind of bad so that might be what you are experiencing.

[Baltar777]

Originally posted by dataseer21:

Yeah snowball is a ranged touch attack. However you should note that it targets touch ac which is significantly lower than normal ac. The spell still needs to pass spell resistance though. So you might want to invest in spell penetration feats as well.

I noticed that the final bossish in act 4 had an AC of like 45 but a touch ac of 22 for example. So it is easier to hit them.

Demons have spell resistance so maybe could be what you are worried about as well. I'm doing a current run with a blaster mage along with some other games. I noticed that even people's prized kineticist needs to pass spell resistance with elemental spells.

Also the random number generator for games like this are kind of bad so that might be what you are experiencing.

Thanks for the breakdown. Ill try to invest in those feats as soon as I get a chance. Ive been playing this game type since BG2, obviously went back and played BG1, Icewind Dale 1 and 2, Pillars 1 and 2, Divinity, etc.

I definitely feel like Wrath is on another level of difficulty than those games were, which is good, I like being pushed to figure out a strategy, and I have it on the hardest mode, so I am down for having to learn how to fight.

Was just surprised when Ember went from A Tier in my party to borderline useless in the course of like 10 hours of playtime lol.

Ill try to get those feats built up, thanks

[Jonkler]

Originally posted by Baltar777:

Thanks for the advice. Would something like the Snowball/Ice Ball spell be considered a "Ranged Touch Attack", though? I didnt see that in the description, figured it was operating on the same principles as any typical Ranged spell.

If a spell requires you to make a roll to HIT (not roll a saving throw) an enemy than it is a ranged touch attack and therefore it is being improved by your dex modifier and is being affected by feats that improve your attack bonus such as point blank shot, precise shot, weapon focus (with some spells), etc. Also in case a spell requires ranged touch attack it is, in fact, stated explicitly in the description, just checked several spells including the snowball.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Baltar777:

Would something like the Snowball/Ice Ball spell be considered a "Ranged Touch Attack", though?

All that is generally in the spell description.

Originally posted by Baltar777:

I didnt see that in the description

First sentence of the Snowball description. It reads: "You conjure a ball of packed ice and snow that you can throw at a single target as a ranged touch attack."

[hilburnashua]

So as dataseer21 already brought up, spell penetration feat to get by the demons' spell resistance.

Demon have energy resistance vs cold of 10. So if you snowball isn't doing at least 11 points of damage, it won't even hurt them (unless you took Ascendent Element- Cold as a mythic power).

Ember starts with point blank shot and precise shot so she is good for shooting into combat but her Blacked curse means she will have a -4 on all attack rolls until lvl 10 at which point it will be reduced to -2. So keep that in mind.

To actually increase her chances of hitting you can increase her dexterity, that is the stat that effects the bonus to hit with all ranged attacks. So you can use Cat's Grace spells/scrolls/potions or belts that give a bonus to dexterity. Bless cast by a divine caster (Daerun and Sosiel) will give a +1 morale bonus to hit to all characters in the area when it is cast. Heroism gives a +2 moral bonus to attack rolls, greater heroism a +4 morale bonus, but since they are all morale they don't stack. Haste is a +1 to hit. If you give her ranks in UMD you can make use of scrolls of divine favor for a +1 luck bonus to hit and later on scrolls of divine power. Prayer spell also gives a +1 luck bonus on attack rolls to all characters that were in range at the time of the casting. All ranged attack spells that have an attack roll are considered rays so you could give her weapon focus - ray for a +1, although I would take that after spell penetration and greater spell penetration. Have Ember use Evil Eye to give the opponent a -4 to their AC, even if it fails it works for 1 round (unless they are immune to mind effect) and once you get Cackle you can Cackle to extend the duration of the Evil Eye for a round each time you Cackle. And since Cackle is a move action you can do that and cast a spell.

At higher levels there is some synergies between characters that can help Ember hit although you will probably be having much less difficulty by that point.

[Deo]

Originally posted by Baltar777:

Hey everyone,

So Ember was doing well thru Act 1, it wasnt until the Gray Garrison I noticed her missing the majority of her projectile spells.

Now that I am in Act 2, shes really missing 7/10 shots.

I have been focusing on upgrading her Charisma, but what other stat would be better to get her things like Iceball and other projectile spells to make contact?

Thanks for your time

Ember will never hit anything with xbow due to her Blackened curse, giving -4 to weapon attack rolls (effectively negating Precise Shot).
Snowball is a good spell for her - it is not affected by Spell Resistance, which every enemy and their dog has in this game, and only requires touch attack to hit. It's cold damage tho.

Do not expect her to deal any meaningful damage in act 2 - she can help with Vescavor Swarms but that's it.

[grognardgary]

Dex is the one stat no class should ever dump. Between ac benefits and ranged attack bonuses, and saving throw bonuses, there is just to much good to be had. Second your go to spell after chapter one should be magic missile it isn't ranged touch, and because it is multiple attacks yielding multple opportunities to get a hit passed MR.

[Deo]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

Dex is the one stat no class should ever dump. Between ac benefits and ranged attack bonuses, and saving throw bonuses

Also Dex affects Initiative.

[fox5s]

Originally posted by Baltar777:

I definitely feel like Wrath is on another level of difficulty than those games were, which is good, I like being pushed to figure out a strategy, and I have it on the hardest mode, so I am down for having to learn how to fight.

Was just surprised when Ember went from A Tier in my party to borderline useless in the course of like 10 hours of playtime lol.

Ill try to get those feats built up, thanks

I find it hard to believe that you are Unfair based on this thread. However, I will still attempt to answer your questions.

@hilburnashua has mostly covered it. The main caveat I have is that her Blackened Curse shouldn't affect her Ranged Touch Attacks. I wouldn't bother to advance her Dex with the stat points from leveling up, Cha is prob the better choice. However, Cat's Grace or Dex items are a solid choice. Additionally, there are several items that improve Ranged Touch Attacks specifically. I think they start showing up in Act 3.

Overall, Ember is pretty easy to set up for Ray casting. Pick up the Bolster, Empower, and Maximize metamagic Feats; Ascendant Element Fire; and the Mythic Favored Metamagics for those Feats and she's set. Adding in Sorcerous Reflexes and the Abundant Casting line is just gravy. Everything else is itemization and buffs.

She's also super solid Hexing. In my playthroughs I don't usually even get to do much casting with her because she is too busy with Protective Luck, Evil Eye, Fortune, and Cackle.

[GunStarX]

Snowball doesn't require a spell resistance check, but it is effected by cold energy resistance. It's still a great spell for the early game thanks to the staggered effect it can trigger.

[Flameraiser]

To be quite frank, the game gives blaster casters pretty terrible time early on. Most demons have 5-10 resistance to fire (and 2 other elements, depending on type of demon) damage meaning that every instance of damage is reduced by 5-10 depending on the amount of resistance. On top of that some demons have spell resistance, which gives them a chance to completely ignore the effects of the spell.

This does get better later on if you build appropriately, but especially early on you are better off focusing on spells like Grease, Web, Pit etc. to control the enemy. Crowd control is usually better than raw damage.

This goes double if you're playing on Core difficulty or higher. The so-called core rules difficulty is honestly something only a sadistic GM would throw at his players on tabletop.

For the math side:

Your chance to hit with ranged touch attacks is:
1d20 + Base attack bonus (BAB) + Dex mod + modifiers from buffs vs. Base AC of 10 + Dex mod + dodge modifiers.

Ember is a Witch, so her BAB is half her level, rounded down. Her base dex is 16, so dex mod is 3.

With this in mind, without any buffs Ember at lvl 8 (around Act 2) trying to make touch attack against enemies in act 2 (10-12 according to random sample I took from old saves):

1d20 + 4 (BAB) + 3 (dex mod) vs. 10-12, or 80-90% chance to hit.

If you're relatively close you also benefit from Point Blank Shot for another +1 / 5% to hit.

Looking at the random sample I took it's worth noting that the touch AC for monsters seems to actually be lower than it should (Plagued Smilodon with 21 Dex only having touch AC of 10 for example) at least on normal, so touch attacks should land most of the time, especially if you throw in some buffs.

Note that ranged touch attack spells would normally suffer from penalties when shooting into melee, but since Ember has Precise Shot feat, this is not the case.

To improve your chances to hit you could:
- Add buffs to Dexterity
- Debuff the enemy AC/dex
- Add buffs that give different types of attack bonus.

With all (de)buffs you need to remember that same types (Morale, Luck etc.) of bonuses do NOT stack; you only benefit from the strongest buff of a type. I.e. Bless and Prayer would stack (Morale and Luck) but Bless and Heroism would not (both morale).

Edit: Seeing as you mentioned you're playing on harder difficulties, the math on hitting is likely way, way worse. I personally got tired of Core rules very fast towards end of act 1 because most of the fights were just "monsters can only hit my tanks on crits, but my dudes only hit the enemy 10-35% of the time". I feel Core just encourages replacing companions with actually min-maxed mercenary party rather than trying to salvage the companions the game provides, while from what I've seen some companions aren't considered unfair-viable at all, optimized build or not.

[dataseer21]

fox5s already mentioned the bolster, maximize, and empower feats. They can cause for your spell to do like 2.5 times damage. That is basically what my current run is about. Also I found out that if you take 1 level of sorceror(only one) you can get the ancestry that gives you a +1 bonus on dice rolls per dice roll of spells with a certain element. Then you can get the archetype that gives you two of these and you can get one that allows for you to pick the element to turn all of your elements to. The sorceror ability works even if you are using a different spell book.

Note that you only want 1 level because otherwise it will worsen your spell progression and spell penetration too much.

[urartu]

Originally posted by hilburnashua:

So as dataseer21 already brought up, spell penetration feat to get by the demons' spell resistance.

Demon have energy resistance vs cold of 10. So if you snowball isn't doing at least 11 points of damage, it won't even hurt them (unless you took Ascendent Element- Cold as a mythic power).

Ember starts with point blank shot and precise shot so she is good for shooting into combat but her Blacked curse means she will have a -4 on all attack rolls until lvl 10 at which point it will be reduced to -2. So keep that in mind.

To actually increase her chances of hitting you can increase her dexterity, that is the stat that effects the bonus to hit with all ranged attacks. So you can use Cat's Grace spells/scrolls/potions or belts that give a bonus to dexterity. Bless cast by a divine caster (Daerun and Sosiel) will give a +1 morale bonus to hit to all characters in the area when it is cast. Heroism gives a +2 moral bonus to attack rolls, greater heroism a +4 morale bonus, but since they are all morale they don't stack. Haste is a +1 to hit. If you give her ranks in UMD you can make use of scrolls of divine favor for a +1 luck bonus to hit and later on scrolls of divine power. Prayer spell also gives a +1 luck bonus on attack rolls to all characters that were in range at the time of the casting. All ranged attack spells that have an attack roll are considered rays so you could give her weapon focus - ray for a +1, although I would take that after spell penetration and greater spell penetration. Have Ember use Evil Eye to give the opponent a -4 to their AC, even if it fails it works for 1 round (unless they are immune to mind effect) and once you get Cackle you can Cackle to extend the duration of the Evil Eye for a round each time you Cackle. And since Cackle is a move action you can do that and cast a spell.

At higher levels there is some synergies between characters that can help Ember hit although you will probably be having much less difficulty by that point.

As far as I remember Blackened only affects weapon rolls in exchange Ember gets all the blasty spells. Meaning that she will not suffer on ranged touch attack rolls which are not weapon based ranged attack rolls.

She is basically the intended ray-blaster character for the campaign.