Help with Shield Maze on Hard

[Ireful]

Looking for some input because I am feeling very confused at the moment. My party includes Wenduag, the 2 other npcs and my Sword Saint. After getting through the initial encounters without too much trouble pretty much every encounter is near impossible without full hp + consumables. Horrible hit % even with flanking, abysmal damage output from every1 except Seelah ( both my char and Camilla can't hit over 5 pts of dmg (most of the time hit for 2 or 3 dmg, Wenduag not much better ), enemies 1 or max 2 shoting my chars. I am at a loss, since all of this is happening at lvl 2 there is no optimisation in builds to be done at this point. Are you really supposed to just skip half of the fights here or am I missing something ?

[Moo]

Originally posted by fox5s:

I also abhor resting in dungeons and during the various sieges and assaults. For example, you could easily rest nine times and have a bit of change during the taking of the Grey Garrison. I do not rest at all there making it into an endurance run. Which, having played PnP for literal YEARS, is exactly what I'm used to.

And Core still requires you to get your buffs in order. Without them, you will run head first into an insurmountable wall.

All of this together would make Hard and Unfair unsuited to how I want to be playing.

You have a no rest in dungeon rule? That's impressive. I can see how that would not be conducive to playing on hard or unfair difficulties. Is there like an insomniac achievement or something for this game?

[fox5s]

Originally posted by jeem1972:

You have a no rest in dungeon rule? That's impressive. I can see how that would not be conducive to playing on hard or unfair difficulties. Is there like an insomniac achievement or something for this game?

Not that I'm aware of. It could help you get the achievement that requires limited rests. But really, it just personally offends me to rest in most of them.

And there is little narrative reason to allow it in most cases. For example, in the Shield Maze, resting not only gives the entire cultist army there time to notice and come down on you, but delays your return to save Kenabres. Yet, mechanically, there's no limit at all to resting there. During the Grey Garrison assault, there are people fighting as a distraction to allow you the chance for this strike. There's not time for rest or they will likely be overrun. During the Lost Chapel, you are racing to get there in time to save everyone. Maybe there's time after you have saved everyone in the Chapel proper but resting without clearing the map would logically allow everyone else to relocate and come back to be trouble later.

Resting during the siege of Drezen actually does make sense to a point. Sieges are rarely one day affairs. But storming the Citadel shouldn't be done over multiple rests. Otherwise you risk a ton of important leaders getting away. At the very least, resting after hanging the Banner should allow Mhinago time to cleanly escape and probably to convince Staunton to go as well.

Resting at any point during Blackwater should allow them to martial the whole place against you. If you are able to escape after the initial encounter, that's fine. But if you come back, they should be more prepared to face what you displayed against them at the time.

Resting in the Midnight Fane should allow a literal army of Demons to be gathered from the literal Abyss to throw at you.

Now, all that said, there is dungeon exploration where resting does make sense. Just not the type we are generally seeing in WotR. Exploring an old forgotten ruin for fun and profit is one thing. Liberating the Grey Garrison before who knows what ritual is performed on the Wardstone while your allies are distracting the garrison fighters present is completely another.

All this is really due to the limitations of the medium we are playing in and the mechanics it forces upon us. But I'd prefer to play as though the stakes the game narratively presents to us actually exist rather than taking a week (or easily more) to exit the Shield Maze, a week and a half to liberate the Grey Garrison, and I don't even know how long you could take to siege Drezen.

Yes, this does mean that when I play a caster MC, I am hoarding my most powerful spells for bosses or emergencies. This also affects my buffing. I am not going in to a dungeon with my minute per level buffs initially cast without something like Enduring Spells or at least having them Extended via Extend rods. But there are a LOT of 10 min per level (or more) spells that will usually hold you through the whole place. Rationing my castings of Haste is more interesting to me than resting at every possible opportunity.

I am aware that this is very much a self-inflicted challenge but it feels better to me than not.

[reidj062]

Oh my gosh, it's almost like you put the game on HARD MODE. Seriously, suck up your pride and lower the difficulty. Who cares?

[.//slayer]

Originally posted by reidj062:

Oh my gosh, it's almost like you put the game on HARD MODE. Seriously, suck up your pride and lower the difficulty. Who cares?

Nothing wrong with playing on a higher difficulty and asking for tips to progress.

[fox5s]

Originally posted by reidj062:

Oh my gosh, it's almost like you put the game on HARD MODE. Seriously, suck up your pride and lower the difficulty. Who cares?

OP hasn't responded since the initial posting. Several people have given advice to lower the difficulty. There is no need for you to be so abrasive about it and bring up pride that hasn't been mentioned.

[Mravenrocks]

Originally posted by fox5s:

Originally posted by Deo:

Game only gets harder after Shield Maze, and gradually harder on act 2 and 3.

Act 1 is the hardest act. If you are able to get out of Kenabres, generally, you are set for the rest of the game. Though, you can run into a wall later if you don't build or buff properly.

Originally posted by Deo:

Nothing is hard on Core. Your main character build doesn't even matter in the beginning.

Rude. But yes, the companions they give you can carry you through the Shield Maze and the rest of Act 1 fairly easily.

Originally posted by Deo:

Spec Seelah into Sohei (there is masterwork Quarterstaff in the Shield maze right as you enter, in the room on the left, with hidden switch on the wall). Voila - you have your carry damage dealer.

Spec Wendu/Lann into Wandering Marksman, with Leopard as animal companion. Give him Tiger animal focus, give him Dodge. Turn on Fighting Defensively on him. Hitting enemy is not his task. There are at least 4 potions of Mage Armor in the Shield maze, few you get right from start. There is at least two Barkskin potions. Camellia can give Barkskin too, don't even need to rest - she has Object Bond to restore spell right as she levels up. Voila - you have your tank.

Keep Camellia as Shaman, take her Protective Luck (you get level 3 on the upper floor, where mobs are easier than on the bottom floor). Her job is to buff Leopard every round with it. She also can buff Bull Strength on Seelah before Elemental fight. There is a potion of Resist Cold before Elemetal, which devs give you. Voila - you have your support.

Main character can be anything, and still go through Shield Maze on Unfair. He is a caster? He can use Demoralize and Light of the Angels to debuff enemies. He is a martial? He can help with damage (although Demoralize and Light of the Angels is simply better).

It's a game made by metagamers for metagamers.

Wow... This goes beyond general advice and tips. Why don't you just go to OP's house and play the game for them?

Also, you only hit level 3 in the Shield Maze if you have been doing a specific exp exploit. Specifically, setting it not to split exp with party members not present and then changing it back RIGHT as you get new party members so they match your exp amount. If someone doesn't know to do this, they will hit level 3 when they arrive at the Defender's Heart (might have been when you complete the Shield Maze but definitely not before then). Which means you are not giving advice properly to a clearly new player when you say things like that.

To OP, if you are struggling on Hard, I'd turn it down to at least Core but lower works as well. The stat bloat kicks in pretty hard on Hard if you aren't prepared for it. I know what it takes to survive in Hard and Unfair and I don't personally find it fun. But YMMV.

The hardest act on Unfair is act 2, the fights in the Chapel against the half-fiend gargoyles is almost surely the hardest fight on Unfair. Once you get to act 3 it's gets easier every act.

[fox5s]

Originally posted by Mravenrocks:

The hardest act on Unfair is act 2, the fights in the Chapel against the half-fiend gargoyles is almost surely the hardest fight on Unfair. Once you get to act 3 it's gets easier every act.

You are probably correct. I should have said Act 1 and 2 are the hardest. I tend to view Act 1 as harder due to your limited options and levels by that point. Though, they give you all the tools, consumables, and companions to allow you to overcome what they throw at you.

And Act 2 gives you Sosiel. I have it on good authority that he's freakishly amazing. Something about Impossible Domain allowing you busted and/or cheesy combinations. Like using the Law Domain to make enemies roll 11 which can allow you to set DCs to beatable numbers. (I've seen a screenshot of Nenio getting Hideous Laughter off on the Unfair Vescavore Queen with this trick.)

Regardless, I agree that Act 1 and 2 are the hardest.

[Mravenrocks]

Yeah, I agree that act 1 is the other most difficult act on Unfair. And Sosiel can do what any cleric can do which is to use domains which are incredibly powerful.

I like to play with mercenaries because I like to make my own party, like in classic D&D games like Pool of Radiance or even Icewind Dale, but you can 100% beat Unfair with the story npcs or you can eve solo Unfair with a Kineticist.

[fox5s]

Originally posted by Mravenrocks:

Yeah, I agree that act 1 is the other most difficult act on Unfair. And Sosiel can do what any cleric can do which is to use domains which are incredibly powerful.

I like to play with mercenaries because I like to make my own party, like in classic D&D games like Pool of Radiance or even Icewind Dale, but you can 100% beat Unfair with the story npcs or you can eve solo Unfair with a Kineticist.

True. And that's a perfectly valid way to play. I like pretty much all the story companions which makes me less inclined to hire mercs.

[.//slayer]

but you can 100% beat Unfair with the story npcs or you can eve solo Unfair with a Kineticist.

Not just a Kineticist - quite a few builds work just fine.

[Moo]

Originally posted by Mravenrocks:

The hardest act on Unfair is act 2, the fights in the Chapel against the half-fiend gargoyles is almost surely the hardest fight on Unfair. Once you get to act 3 it's gets easier every act.

The gargoyle chieftain in the Lost Chapel? Yeah, he's pretty tough, but he isn't so bad if you bait him into wasting his blasphemy spell on less important targets.

[swordfish]

Originally posted by reidj062:

Oh my gosh, it's almost like you put the game on HARD MODE. Seriously, suck up your pride and lower the difficulty. Who cares?

🤣🤣🤣 why angry my man. Chill chill son