Iomedae adds nothing to the story as ------

[jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi]

Iomedae is a ♥♥♥♥♥ and adds nothing to the story by showing up in person. I stand by this statement as you could pretty much remove her from the game and give the role to some other character entirely and you would NOT notice, in fact it would be better for that role to have gone to someone entirely as my impression of an exchange with her is that she is a jealous ♥♥♥♥♥ that claims to know better when she has NOT done a single damn thing the whole game. Point being if you are going to show up to lecture me when all I've done is do something your followers could NOT do for a century until I showed up and say I'm doing it wrong is literally stupid.
Anyway I'm not going to go into the question of why she hasn't done anything the real question I have is since she has done nothing up until this point and only shows up to lecture during the 10th hour of the game's story. I mean seriously I don't need to be told HOW to my job, one that you are incapable of doing for reasons unknown and also I don't appreceite characters who are younger then my character lecturing me about responsibilities, ♥♥♥♥♥ you are over a 100 at this point, my characters have been along for WAY longer then that in many cases, one is a an elf who is over 800 years old, my main character is so old that to him Iomedae is an infant from his standpoint. Point being I'm way older and way more logical then you are so I don't need your advise.
Anyway point being if Iomedae wanted to lodge a complaint send somebody else to do it for you because in the whole conversation Noctilcula and Areelu the actual abyss-spawn are more respectful and make more sense then Iomedae does in the conversation.
Point being ANYONE could have filed her role, because at most she comes off as a smart-ass brat who thinks she knows better by virtue of being a diety even though she is by my opinion a false one as gods should not behave in that manner hell I'd argue a fair amount of the dieties are not proper gods as they can die: newsflash number 1 requirement for being a god is that cannot die and have conquered death itself, if you are not able to fill this requirement at least you are NOT a God. And don't tell me Asmodeus is a proper diety, no he is the most powerful of Devils who styles himself as a god but never can be a God because he basically threw away the chance of true-godhood before the universe was even made.
Anyway point being Iomedae showing up adds nothing to the story and he role could easily be filled by any number of other characters and it wouldn't come off as being so insulting. There is nothing more annoying to me then being lectured by someone that is younger then me, both in real life and in video games and Iomedae comes off as being a self-righteous ♥♥♥♥♥ and I have nothing positive to say about her. Say what you will when it comes to lore, I'm not judging her by the lore standards but by my personal opinion on meeting with and speaking with her is that she is not a true goddess and is a ♥♥♥♥♥ who doesn't do anything of note and could and should have been replaced with anyone else.

[Empukris]

I dont like most of lawful character in this game so yeah I agree with you. When she told me to surrender my power, my immediate reaction is F you. This crusade is F-ed in Chapter 1 if I dont have this mythic power.

The two person that I hate the most is Iomedae and Regill so yeah even compared to Wenduag I can trust her more than I can trust that idiot Regill. It is just that his quest really pissed me off.

[Shadow]

What do you mean? Regill you can trust to stick to the rules and laws that he has sworn himself to, even or perhaps especially if he's on the receiving end of it. His motivations are perhaps the easiest to understand out of anyone. As long as it's within those rules, he'll do anything for you as your subordinate.

As far as Iomedae is concerned, well, judging by the way the first post is written it might just be trolling, but I mean, he's not wrong. Iomedae is one of those stuck up, self-righteous, "holier than thou" types. I suppose being a deity she technically is holier than thou, but still.

Not saying she hasn't earned the right to be that way. Doesn't make interacting with her any less grating though.

[Empukris]

That idiot think it is much better to kill me than at the very least kill me after the crusade is over. Just because I choose Azata and trickster as my mythic. Who are you to judge me? Wenduag at the very least I understand her motive. And she actually want to trust you which is why her whole quest is also testing your judgement. Whether you are worth fighting for.

I probably more tilted towards chaotic also so all this lawful character is just annoying for me to deal with.

[Raikon]

Aroden never had a chance in paizos setting. Rip aroden.

[Deo]

Iomedae just shows up in the moment of a big decision, because she wants to influence the outcome. She really did nothing through the whole game to help you before that moment, like nothing at all.

I doubt anyone could fill her role, she is very well written. All those crusaders praising her - but as you go through the game you notice more and more, that she doesn't really deserve that praise. Her Crusades failed, and achieved nothing - in fact, Worldwound even expanded more. This wardstone thing - even Galfrey at the end saying, that to tell people the truth about Wardstones would be madness and unwise.

All those righteous lawful good queens and priests hiding the truth, just like their "goddess" - it's all quite good writing. They are not different from demons, right like Areelu saying. Just two sides of one coin.

The fact that a character from a game brought so much emotions to you, shows that Iomedae's role in the game is not replaceable.

[Steffan]

Originally posted by Shadow:

What do you mean? Regill you can trust to stick to the rules and laws that he has sworn himself to, even or perhaps especially if he's on the receiving end of it. His motivations are perhaps the easiest to understand out of anyone. As long as it's within those rules, he'll do anything for you as your subordinate.

As far as Iomedae is concerned, well, judging by the way the first post is written it might just be trolling, but I mean, he's not wrong. Iomedae is one of those stuck up, self-righteous, "holier than thou" types. I suppose being a deity she technically is holier than thou, but still.

Not saying she hasn't earned the right to be that way. Doesn't make interacting with her any less grating though.

Regill is among the four companions (in total from all my three runs) who have tried to kill my commander. Even though the said commander was in the process of ditching his demonic powers. Not that I complain. It was a very good fight. I admit he is well-written but Lawful evil not my favorite evil alignment. Fun fact: you can't spare him. He goes really all in.

While my first impression from the Inheritor was not a positive one, in my subsequent runs I liked her more. She does not really try to control you and lets you act however you want. I am a big fan of the Legend path, which has become my favorite. And if you play in an evil path, Iomedae is one of the few chances you have for salvation.

But really... what other god can play her role? Pharasma is a little bit too detached to interfere and the other gods are not that important for the crusade.

[reidj062]

It really puzzles me that Iomedae can't wrestle her own lieutenant from imprisonment.

"my characters have been along for WAY longer then that in many cases, one is a an elf who is over 800 years old, my main character is so old that to him Iomedae is an infant from his standpoint. "

So not sure what fantasy game you think you are playing, but in Pathfinder the maximum age of elves is a mere 350 years. Also, where do you get the idea that Iomedae is just a century old? Wiki says she was born as a mortal in 3800 AR, she became a divine herald 32 years later, and became a god herself in 4606 AR.

[Raikon]

She didn't wrestle the hand from imprisonment because she wanted a better female replacement. Aka Galfry the strong. Galfry the independent. Galfry the beloved. It's paizos setting. The herald was doomed at creation.

[igor140]

@Reidj: I could be wrong, but I think the implication is that Storyteller is actually MUCH older than that. There's a conversation in Act 4 with Nocticula in which you learn that Storyteller was "very old" when that person took over part of Abyss. I don't know that there's an exact date on that... but presumably several thousand years. I think it's safe to say that Storyteller is NOT an normal elf.

Not sure what the OP means about his main character being older than that though...

As to the original post: I disagree. The fact that you pointed out so many individual things about that interaction supports my argument : )

Now, I will certainly agree that the interaction was not as positive, awe-inspiring, or "magical" as I had expected meeting a god would be (other than that entrance.. I thought that was pretty cool)... but I think that's kind of the point, and why it had to be her.

She sends Hand much earlier, but both of them (Hand and Iomedae herself) give you the exact reason why: the gods and demon lords are supposed to have a non-interference pact when it comes to Golarion. Obviously the Demon Lords (most notably Dreskari) are overstepping that, but she says she was trying to respect that line, so she sent Hand.

As to why she can't rescue him at a certain point, I *think* Hand himself says this, but Targona definitely does when you first find her: gods/ beings from heaven cannot communicate directly with other angels/ heavenly entities if they are in Abyss.

Now, I will say that the interaction with Iomedae changes DRASTICALLY depending on which mythic path you are on. So maybe you just didn't like the individual path you're on?

As for why she bothers to show up at all, she states that very plainly as well (and this is consistently supported on the Trickster, Angel, Swarm, and Azata paths... and maybe the others, but those are the ones I've done): no one-- from gods to demon lords to every other type of being-- understands your power. It shouldn't exist. Your main character is, in the eyes of the ENTIRE supernatural/ higher-power community, an aberration and a mistake.

So she's gotten her followers (through Queen Galfrey) to rally and fight this crusade in HER name... and then you show up with your weird mystical powers that no one understands and basically hijack her crusade. Depending on the path you take, that confrontation ranges from, "Why are you using my name if I didn't grant you these powers" to "Stop committing horrific war crimes with my crusaders; you're worse than the demons" .

I suppose this DOES beg the question of why she doesn't forcibly do anything about it when you meet her... but I think the implication (or maybe it's directly stated?) is that you and the other people at that confrontation are a legitimate rival to her power; you (if you worked with them) probably COULD overthrow her at that point. So she asks nicely, and then gives you the finger before flying off.

All told, I do agree that the whole interaction wasn't very "lawful good", but I think that's part of the point. in the end, I tend to agree with Ember in this case.

[Raikon]

There was no crusade before you came though. They weren't fighting in her name or galfry. You saved the town, you liberated the city. You are the crusade. This isn't something you highjacked. This is something your actions created.

[Shadow]

More like was forced onto you. Yeah, sure, you manifest some kind of obviously supernatural power you have little control over and is way stronger than anything any normal wizard or priest might be able to pull off. And just because of that suddenly everybody is calling you the chosen one of Iomedae and the queen hands you a rather high ranking title and an army and orders you to sally forth to slay the demons.

Reminds me a little of Life of Brian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHbzSif78qQ

[igor140]

Originally posted by Raikon:

There was no crusade before you came though. They weren't fighting in her name or galfry. You saved the town, you liberated the city. You are the crusade. This isn't something you highjacked. This is something your actions created.

Hmm... I believe you are mistaken. Galfrey's whole "doesn't age or die" thing was granted to her by Iomedae BECAUSE she was tasked with leading the crusade, that started over 100 years ago. It had definitely stalled and stagnated since then, and your actions revitalized it...

And it IS called the "Fifth" crusade... but it's all still part of Galfrey's mission from Iomedae. The emissaries that come from the capital city, the extra troops, the additional funds... all of that strongly indicate that it's still Galfrey's crusade, she's just putting you in charge as the spearhead.

I mean, the Fifth crusade was definitely going to happen, with or without you (as evidenced by some of the ending slides for the Swarm path, and likely others)... it just probably would have gone more poorly if you hadn't been leading it.

[jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi]

Originally posted by Raikon:

There was no crusade before you came though. They weren't fighting in her name or galfry. You saved the town, you liberated the city. You are the crusade. This isn't something you high-jacked. This is something your actions created.

Which proves my point from the start: I'm the person doing ALL the hard work, as abnormal as my powers may be the fact that thru them and my own efforts I'm doing something that the Crusaders have been failing at doing for the past century tells me that I'm 100% in the right, the fact is Iomedae comes off as being a condescending is made all the more impactful depending on character age: you can say what official numbers are but that doesn't really factor into my characters, I shape my characters based on my own concepts that don't necessarily align with established lore. My character is functionally a powerful being that is exceptionally old, millennia old his exact age is something I'm not listing suffice to say he assumes a form that resembles a human for game play reasons but in reality for his lore is WAY older then any human being. It does not matter about the ages for a specific species if I'm roleplaying a character that is a certain age they straight up are, whether they are younger or older then Iomedae.
But again that takes away from my point, my point is that I honestly think that she is completely wrong and her interference at this point in the game is not going to accomplish anything positive, if anything I just see her as butting into something I've got perfectly under control and trying to give me advise that won't help fix the problem.
Point being I ultimately think her being there is pointless as she really does NOT make a compelling arguement for her own case by sheer virtue of having done nothing. Also if she knew the powers weren't from her from the start why did she let the Herald come and aid the player, don't you think she could have told him that hey this isn't my power I don't know what it is so please don't do something rash like follow this person into the depths of the Abyss thinking they are my champion.
The fact is I don't see her as someone worthy of giving the time of day to or worthy of any worship as I don't see her actually caring about her followers enough to help them at the moment, honestly I think she either doesn't think the Worldwound is a threat to Golarion when it is as something like that could if it expand risk breaking the prison of Rovagug thus resulting in Golorian blowing up (By the way since the Lovecraftian Gods are a thing in Pathfinder the best way to get rid of Rovagug would have been to ask Nyarlathotep to teleport him to the center of creation and feed him to Azathoth, I don't think Rovagug would survive that) that or her powers are limited to the scale that a True God would not have.
Anyway my thoughts are clear I don't like Iomedae and if there were an option to ignore her entirely I'd take it and simply take mythic 8 without her interrupting my leveling, also I'm not letting her block me from the secret ending, I'll take the crystals and ascend and be a far better deity then Iomedae ever could be

[jedi7000nathan/sevenbillionjedi]

Originally posted by igor140:

Originally posted by Raikon:

There was no crusade before you came though. They weren't fighting in her name or galfry. You saved the town, you liberated the city. You are the crusade. This isn't something you highjacked. This is something your actions created.

Hmm... I believe you are mistaken. Galfrey's whole "doesn't age or die" thing was granted to her by Iomedae BECAUSE she was tasked with leading the crusade, that started over 100 years ago. It had definitely stalled and stagnated since then, and your actions revitalized it...

And it IS called the "Fifth" crusade... but it's all still part of Galfrey's mission from Iomedae. The emissaries that come from the capital city, the extra troops, the additional funds... all of that strongly indicate that it's still Galfrey's crusade, she's just putting you in charge as the spearhead.

I mean, the Fifth crusade was definitely going to happen, with or without you (as evidenced by some of the ending slides for the Swarm path, and likely others)... it just probably would have gone more poorly if you hadn't been leading it.

No it wasn't granted by Iomedae its because she is taking the elixar that gives youth when consumed, its purchesed by the Church of Iomedae and her court to prolong her life-span so that Galfrey can live long enough to see things thru, not to mention have an heir and leave a functioning stable kingdom. Iomedae had nothing to do with her quasi-immortality.
Also considering the fact that me leading it has it go as successfully as it can (actually ending the threat of the Wound permanently) I'm safe in saying that Iomedae is being an idiot by trying to interfere with me completing the job, does it matter if it costs me my life if it save A LOT of people, that's the kind of heroic death that is worth dying, and for that matter who is she to judge me for my actions, I don't worship her, I don't care what she thinks and I certainly am going to do what I want to do regardless of her opinion also again I'll say her not warning her Herald before he joined my entourage to march into the Abyss was something that is entirely her fault and is the ultimate case of betrayal, she khew what her Herald was going to do the moment he arrived on Golarion and her lack of simply telling him about what is going on either means one of two things, either she doesn't care for his safety or she not a proper diety as a proper deity would be able to warn their servents not to rush into obvious peril

[igor140]

Wait a second... so your whole premise for this thread is an artificial backstory that you've given yourself that is entirely inconsistent with the extant story and lore...?

YOU like to roleplay a character that is several millennia old-- despite that not being an actual in-game option-- and that's why you're upset...?

How is that different from being upset that my jetpack won't work or that my Superman laser vision isn't properly implemented...?

As to your point that she's wrong... again, I think that's a very valid conclusion. Ember says that literally from the time you meet her. Other deities and extremely old beings have a lot of very similar reservations about and disdain for Iomedae. I don't think you're wrong in that part of your perspective...

... I think you're just missing the point that that *IS* part of the story.

It would be like reading Romeo and Juliet, getting to the end... and then wondering why Mercutio had to die.