Through the Ashes Review in Brief *Minor Spoilers*

[thelebk]

I just completed the "Through the Ashes" DLC and I must say it was fantastic! Here are some of the things I appreciated:

(1) I enjoy survival games and this had a flavor like one. All resources were more precious and felt special. I was so excited when I could finally buy a suit of Hide armor even at greatly inflated prices!
(2) The two new NPCs added were both interesting and interactive.
(3) I have always loved low level adventures. Players tend to be more creative when they cannot brute force their way through situations.
(4) Clever use of different vendors integrated into the adventure. Economy was sound. Money mattered.
(5) Clever board design which facilitated alternate strategies. Lots of intractable objects which could be exploited for situational gain in encounters.
(6) Felt very heroic throughout. What my adventurers did seemed to matter.
(7) Story sections between boards were very well executed and meaningful. The refugees you were protecting had a chance to shine and became assets in their own right.
(8) Turn based combat played smoothly (normal difficulty)
(9) Did not encounter any serious bugs throughout
(10) I enjoyed the addition of limited use items like "tools" which facilitated some tough decisions on when to use them.

Indeed my only gripe, and its a small one, is that the Demon by the Inn towards completion was too powerful and broke the main story. The main campaign NPC and accompanying crusaders who ultimately best the demon could not possibly hit its 35 AC based on their stats in the main campaign. This demon would have easily slaughtered all of them. This NPC and all the crusaders with it would have needed to be ~10 level to stand a chance. Of course if there were a pile of 10th level NPC types at the Inn there would be no need at all for the PCs in the main campaign to defend the location. Even one of these 10th level NPCs could have defended the entire location without breaking a sweat. The Devs could have used a less powerful demon which still would have cannalized the player away from an open fight, but not been so powerful as to break the storyline of the main campaign. Food for thought.

[fox5s]

Hmmm... I dunno. I can clock Irabeth as possibly making it to +25 to hit assuming she still had the sword she sold that we later find in Drezen. (If she can at least scrounge up a +2 longsword to replace it she's still at +23.) Maybe a touch more depending on her Cha for smite. I'm being super generous as I don't actually know her stats and am just making some assumptions based on possible buffs available by level five. I can give you the breakdown if you like.

Though, I can't clock her AC as being able to hold out against that demon. I can get her to 31 AC pretty easily but without knowing her Feats or hurting her to-hit I can't go higher. It'd probably down her in the first round or two while she's still working through it. And once she's down, I think the rest are fodder for the thing.

[thelebk]

@Fox5 I think you may be a bit generous to Irabeth here. She is weaker at the beginning of the Campaign than the end. In the cut scene she does not even hit the Demon until the very end. Somehow level 3-4 crusaders are rolling piles of natural 20s to check through that Demons ~300 hp. Even assuming Irabeth could hit it with a nat 20, the Demon is a beast and as you noted would make short work of her. A Lesser demon would have been more realistic IMHO.

[fox5s]

I mean, I literally said I was being generous. My math includes a full suite of buffs that she *could* have but that i doubt she actually has.

Even with my generosity, I think she still loses to it due to AC issues. I was just saying that I think she has good odds on hitting it. But it has too much health for her one hit a round at level 5 (two if we continue being super generous and give her a Haste) to do much about it destroying her and the people she rolls up with.

[thelebk]

@Fox5s We will agree to disagree that she has a good (50%+) chance to hit it. I do appreciate your analysis though-- it is thoughtful. Thanks for sharing!

[fox5s]

I do like your list and more or less agree with it. I liked into the Ashes as well. I'm not sure I like how little connection it has to the main story. But it was a fun romp.

[Crusader993]

Originally posted by fox5s:

I liked into the Ashes as well. I'm not sure I like how little connection it has to the main story. But it was a fun romp.

And it will continue in the near future. :)

[thelebk]

@Fox5s Well said, as usual. I felt it added in additional context to the main campaign as we got to see areas of the city and what was happening there. In the main campaign there is very little view of that. The player goes straight from the Mongrel Maze to the Grey Garrison. Would have been nice if they had to make there way there across the city like Through the Ashes did.

@Crusader993 Any Idea when the next installment will be released? I did not find anything in a quick google search.

[thelebk]

@fox5s Here is an update on Irabeth's stats from the Grey Garrison raid which is contemporary with Through the Ashes. Irabeth is AC20, She has a +1 Longsword, 18 Strength, and her total bonus to hit is +10. She is complete meat for the demon at the end of Through the Ashes as I suspected.

[Victoria]

I wish that the content added to the main campaign was more substantial.

[Soul in Shadow]

I largely agree with your list, my major gripe with the DLC is the tonal whiplash of a normal(ish) person barely surviving a city overrun with demons and cultists to Oh look, now we are chasing the scion of a dead god to try and stop him from resurrecting his master. I would have been much happier if the rogue and sorcerer went off to do that while the player generated characters stayed to help the crusaders, with a new PC for the next part of the story.

Plus I am not a big fan of being slapped with a big "To be continued!" sign at the end of a DLC.

[Crusader993]

Originally posted by thelebk:

@Crusader993 Any Idea when the next installment will be released? I did not find anything in a quick google search.

I read somewhere that the second DLC will probably be released in August.

Just wait and see. ;)

[thelebk]

@Victoria So much more could be done yes?
@Soul in Shadow You make some valid points.
@Crusader993 Next month? That's great can't wait!

[fox5s]

Originally posted by thelebk:

@fox5s Here is an update on Irabeth's stats from the Grey Garrison raid which is contemporary with Through the Ashes. Irabeth is AC20, She has a +1 Longsword, 18 Strength, and her total bonus to hit is +10. She is complete meat for the demon at the end of Through the Ashes as I suspected.

I see. I counted on her having a 20 Str and my math used a +2 weapon and assumed she had picked up Weapon Focus at some point. The buffs I added after that were doing basic buffing that a player could do via potions or support casters with third level spells available.

Oh! Did you catch her Cha? I used base 10 for my to-hit math and then 16 base Cha for the AC. Because I assumed she'd be using Smite. I know I was being inconsistent there but I think even the better Cha for AC would still not be enough to reliably protect her from that beast. And because the round number looked better.

And I totally agree that her base stats and to-hit would have been completely insufficient.

[thelebk]

@Fox5s I deciphered the above stats from her to hit rolls. She did use power attack so you can giver her +1-2 more on total to hit if needed. I did not see a way to get her CHA.

[fox5s]

Originally posted by thelebk:

@Fox5s I deciphered the above stats from her to hit rolls. She did use power attack so you can giver her +1-2 more on total to hit if needed. I did not see a way to get her CHA.

Cool. Imma break down what she COULD have ben using that could make it feasible (though still not likely) for her and the team to take on that Demon

5 BAB for level 5 Paladin
4 Str from 18 Str
1 Enhancement from +1 Weapon
1 Weapon Focus
1 Cha from Smite (making a big Cha assumption here to make it match your combat log)
-2 Power Attack

That brings her to a +10 total that you reported in the combat log. Let's see what we can add when limited to third level spells for buffs.

1 additional Enhancement bonus from Divine Weapon Bond
2 Str from Bull's Strength
2 Cha from Eagle's Splendor
2 Morale from Heroism
1 Haste from Haste
1 Luck from Prayer (or Divine Favor)
2 from Flanking

That's an additional 11 for a total of +21 to-hit. Trying to hit a 35 AC is about the range that bonus should stop power attacking to bump it up to +23. Not selling her sword would also get her an additional +3. It's a really nice sword to fight Demons with. (She could get more if she had specific teammates but that's not something we see so I can't include it.)

Her AC leaves much to be desired against the likely attack bonus of that Demon. Because I'm already here, let's do that one too.

10 Base
9 Full Plate
1 Dex from at least a 12 Dex (and if it's not that high, we'd be bumping it up to at least this high via Cat's Grace or Reduce Person anyway)
2 Shield
1 Deflection from Smite Evil and her assumed Cha of at least 12

23 going in isn't too bad (but will absolutely not do against that opponent). Let's see how much more we can push it.

2 extra Deflection from Cha due to Eagle's Splendor
1 Haste from Haste
2 Sacred from Veil of Heaven (paladin spell)
2 Enhancement from Magic Vestments (+1 each to armor and shield and is why I didn't assume magic armor and shield earlier)
2 Natural Armor from Barkskin (likely potion)

That's another 9 for a total of 32. I can't go much higher without killing her to-hit via Defensive Fighting or knowing her Feats for certain. She might have Dodge and Shield focus. But only if she does not have Weapon Focus. We know she has Power Attack. If I was to be as generous as possible, she'd get the most AC out of Shield Wall. And she forms up with enough other crusaders that it would be totally believable for her to have it.

That puts her at 33 AC if she has Dodge and 34 if she has Shield Wall. 35 if she has both and no Weapon Focus.

She could gain or lose ~2 AC depending on if she was enlarged or reduced but neither affects her to-hit so I haven't included it thus far.

She could probably also have Blur or Displacement but that Demon looks like it has enough hit dice to have True Sight. If it doesn't, that could conceivably make the difference and allow her AC to keep her alive long enough to actually kill the thing. It would be a close thing and I'd still favor the Demon.

(And again, we could adjust this further if we could pick specific teammates for her but it's not in the spirit of the exercise.)

I'm just treating this as a food for thought exercise. She's not shown to be using any of this in-game and her base state would get her and her whole team roflstomped into the dust with barely any effort on the Demon's part. Which is why you bring up the point and I more or less agree that the Demon they used isn't a good fit.

Meta reason is that they didn't want you to brute force fight the demon and were happy to narratively kill it in a cutscene to accomplish this goal even if it doesn't make actual sense. Very immersion breaking if you stop to think about it.