Looking for legend build advice

[Rossman]

Currently in the middle of act 4 (core) and my MC is a 10 demonslayer/ 7 mutation warrior. I was planning to take mutation warrior to 10 but I'm wondering how to continue my build after that. Do I just get 20/20 in my existing classes or or there any more dips worth taking. I don't want to go full meme and get like 7 different classes but if there's one or two worth taking then I'm open to ideas.

[Immortal Reaver]

That will work very well.
I would do 20Demonslayer/19MW, then pick whatever else strikes your fancy.
If you need AC you can take dip Witch with Iceplant and Lizard familiar (if you have Ice Ring from act 1, then it adds together to +5AC), or Monk for Crane.
If you are damage dealer, LVL 20 ability of MW, Weapon Mastery, that auto confirms crits and increase of Crit Multiplier is great.

[elbentzo]

Originally posted by Rossman:

Currently in the middle of act 4 (core) and my MC is a 10 demonslayer/ 7 mutation warrior. I was planning to take mutation warrior to 10 but I'm wondering how to continue my build after that. Do I just get 20/20 in my existing classes or or there any more dips worth taking. I don't want to go full meme and get like 7 different classes but if there's one or two worth taking then I'm open to ideas.

keeping them both at 20 is fine. On core, it'll make an efficient build (in the sense you should run into anything too difficult if you play smart), and if you have good party synergy you'll probably steamroll the game. If you want to deviate from MW20/DS20, remember a few important things:
1. One of the best features legend has (for martial character at least) is that their BAB keeps growing. That means more attacks per round, more synergy with feats like power attack / deadly aim / pirahna strike, etc.. So it's in your best interest to keep a high BAB. Right now you'll end up with 40 BAB, which will result in 8 attacks, and up to +55 damage from power attack. If you want to dip into other classes, this great benefit will diminish. I wouldn't dip to anything that'll lower the BAB under 36. You could, and your build can still slay core, but you'll be missing out on one of the best martial benefits of Legend.
2. This is too late for you now, but for people reading this BEFORE they start a Legend run -- by the end of the run you'll end up losing all your mythic powers except for the first 2. Make sure you've picked stuff that remains viable and isn't dependent on your mythic rank, because it's going to drop. Power Attack (Mythic) is a great choice for martial characters, for example, while Archmage Armor isn't (usually it's a good ability to boost your ac by up to 10, but for a legend it'll be a mere +2 ac).
3. You will be absolutely SWAMPED with feats. So if you decide you want to branch out from fighter into another class, you can really increase the effectiveness of classes that are usually feat starved.
4. In your particular case, one could argue that both your chosen classes have a pretty skippable 20th level. For the ranger, your AB and damage will be SUPER high already, more than enough for core, so that last tier of Favored Enemy isn't critical. For MW the +1 to crit multiplier is good, but again, not necessary for core. Dropping them both to 19 and using the levels for a 2 level dip is quite reasonable. Don't go MW under 19, though. DS can go further down if you really want a heftier dip, but I like the improved quarry ability.

[Immortal Reaver]

Skipping 20th lvl of Demonslayer will lose 2 AB and 2 damage. 3 AB if you go for class that is not full BAB. Due to 5th and last Favorite Enemy being on lvl 20.

[elbentzo]

Originally posted by Immortal Reaver:

That will work very well.
I would do 20Demonslayer/19MW, then pick whatever else strikes your fancy.
If you need AC you can take dip Witch with Iceplant and Lizard familiar (if you have Ice Ring from act 1, then it adds together to +5AC), or Monk for Crane.
If you are damage dealer, LVL 20 ability of MW, Weapon Mastery, that auto confirms crits and increase of Crit Multiplier is great.

I'd say that generally speaking it's a pretty good ability, but for a full martial Legend build... You're going to have a BAB of aorund 40 and REALLY high str. Your AB could easily be 100+ when fully buffed. You're gonna confirm crits on a 2+ when buffed (at least for your first 4 or 5 attacks in the round if not all 8), and on core -- probably that when not fully buffed as well. So it just leaves the +1 crit multiplier, which is good, but not a must.

[elbentzo]

Originally posted by Immortal Reaver:

Skipping 20th lvl of Demonslayer will lose 2 AB and 2 damage. 3 AB if you go for class that is not full BAB. Due to 5th and last Favorite Enemy being on lvl 20.

I explained why I think it's unnecessary in my original post, and also in the post after that (that starts with ``I'd say that..."). A bonus of +2 AB on core when you have 70+ unbuffed AB is really not a big deal. If the man wants to dip into other classes, he will benefit much more from the fun of adding new abilities and variety to his character than from the +2 overkill AB and damage.

[Rossman]

Originally posted by elbentzo:

Originally posted by Rossman:

Currently in the middle of act 4 (core) and my MC is a 10 demonslayer/ 7 mutation warrior. I was planning to take mutation warrior to 10 but I'm wondering how to continue my build after that. Do I just get 20/20 in my existing classes or or there any more dips worth taking. I don't want to go full meme and get like 7 different classes but if there's one or two worth taking then I'm open to ideas.

keeping them both at 20 is fine. On core, it'll make an efficient build (in the sense you should run into anything too difficult if you play smart), and if you have good party synergy you'll probably steamroll the game. If you want to deviate from MW20/DS20, remember a few important things:
1. One of the best features legend has (for martial character at least) is that their BAB keeps growing. That means more attacks per round, more synergy with feats like power attack / deadly aim / pirahna strike, etc.. So it's in your best interest to keep a high AB. Right now you'll end up with 40 AB, which will result in 8 attacks, and up to +55 damage from power attack. If you want to dip into other classes, this great benefit will diminish. I wouldn't dip to anything that'll lower the BAB under 36. You could, and your build can still slay core, but you'll be missing out on one of the best martial benefits of Legend.
2. This is too late for you now, but for people reading this BEFORE they start a Legend run -- by the end of the run you'll end up losing all your mythic powers except for the first 2. Make sure you've picked stuff that remains viable and isn't dependent on your mythic rank, because it's going to drop. Power Attack (Mythic) is a great choice for martial characters, for example, while Archmage Armor isn't (usually it's a good ability to boost your ac by up to 10, but for a legend it'll be a mere +2 ac).
3. You will be absolutely SWAMPED with feats. So if you decide you want to branch out from fighter into another class, you can really increase the effectiveness of classes that are usually feat starved.
4. In your particular case, one could argue that both your chosen classes have a pretty skippable 20th level. For the ranger, your AB and damage will be SUPER high already, more than enough for core. For MW the +1 to crit multiplier is good, but again, not necessary for core. Dropping them both to 19 and using the levels for a 2 level dip is quite reasonable. Don't go MW under 19, though. DS can go further down if you really want a heftier dip, but I like the improved quarry ability.

I actually did some research beforehand and made sure not to waste my first 2 mythic choices. I believe they were last stand and mythic TWF since my MC is dual wielding bastard swords.

What other max BAB classes would be worth dipping 2+ levels into?

[elbentzo]

Originally posted by Rossman:

Originally posted by elbentzo:

keeping them both at 20 is fine. On core, it'll make an efficient build (in the sense you should run into anything too difficult if you play smart), and if you have good party synergy you'll probably steamroll the game. If you want to deviate from MW20/DS20, remember a few important things:
1. One of the best features legend has (for martial character at least) is that their BAB keeps growing. That means more attacks per round, more synergy with feats like power attack / deadly aim / pirahna strike, etc.. So it's in your best interest to keep a high AB. Right now you'll end up with 40 AB, which will result in 8 attacks, and up to +55 damage from power attack. If you want to dip into other classes, this great benefit will diminish. I wouldn't dip to anything that'll lower the BAB under 36. You could, and your build can still slay core, but you'll be missing out on one of the best martial benefits of Legend.
2. This is too late for you now, but for people reading this BEFORE they start a Legend run -- by the end of the run you'll end up losing all your mythic powers except for the first 2. Make sure you've picked stuff that remains viable and isn't dependent on your mythic rank, because it's going to drop. Power Attack (Mythic) is a great choice for martial characters, for example, while Archmage Armor isn't (usually it's a good ability to boost your ac by up to 10, but for a legend it'll be a mere +2 ac).
3. You will be absolutely SWAMPED with feats. So if you decide you want to branch out from fighter into another class, you can really increase the effectiveness of classes that are usually feat starved.
4. In your particular case, one could argue that both your chosen classes have a pretty skippable 20th level. For the ranger, your AB and damage will be SUPER high already, more than enough for core. For MW the +1 to crit multiplier is good, but again, not necessary for core. Dropping them both to 19 and using the levels for a 2 level dip is quite reasonable. Don't go MW under 19, though. DS can go further down if you really want a heftier dip, but I like the improved quarry ability.

I actually did some research beforehand and made sure not to waste my first 2 mythic choices. I believe they were last stand and mythic TWF since my MC is dual wielding bastard swords.

What other max BAB classes would be worth dipping 2+ levels into?

Honestly, MW and DS are two of the best martial classes in my opinion. Staying with 20 in both of them will destroy core if you play smart and have a decent party, so dipping is mostly about stuff you think is cool. Paladins are decent 2 level dips (if you're LG) because you get one smite (which will only increase damage by 2 but increase your AB by your cha modifier, which could be very high late game especially with the Legend +4 bonus) and Divine Grace, for even higher saves. Monks are good dips for ac, so if you feel lacking in that department and are lawful... Or you could go Instinctual Warrior for ac if you're chaotic, and you'd also get 1 rage power. Honestly, if it was me, I'd stick with your current classes. My point was that you can dip a little without overly decreasing your martial prowess. If you choose to dip 20 levels into rogue and get all the great rogue talents, that could be a fun build, but you'd be losing most of the Legend's advantage in martial prowess. That was my point.

[Rossman]

Would a dip into Slayer for some sneak attack dice be worth it over full demonslayer?

[elbentzo]

Originally posted by Rossman:

Would a dip into Slayer for some sneak attack dice be worth it over full demonslayer?

Like I said before, I believe whatever you choose will be more than enough for core, so I'd advise you to just base your dip on whatever is coolest in your eyes. But I can try to help you from a completely efficiency-based approach:
Let's say you don't want to go less than DS 15, because that would cost you not just one tier of Favored Enemy, but 2, which is already quite a lot. Let's also say you're willing to sacrifice the final level of MW because confirming crits would be pretty easy and the bonus to crit multiplier is great but not a must. That gives you up to 6 levels you can take in slayer. Let's look at the base class. What you get is:
1. 2 sneak attack dice. We'll count it as 3 because once you get them, you can use a feat to increase it to 3 and you have an overabundance of feats.
2. 3 Slayer talents.
3. Studied target +2.

What you lose is:
1. +2 attack and damage against demons (1 tier of Favored Enemy).
2. Improved Quarry.
3. Improved Evasion.
4. 1 Favored Terrain.
5. 1 combat style feat.
6. Crit auto confirm + increased crit multiplier.

The +2 from studied target and from favored enemy are more or less equal. Studied target requires you to deal sneak attack damage before it procs, but that's not really a problem because your first attack will almost always do it. Favored enemy only procs against demons but that's almost 100% of your enemies by the time you get the Legend path (not including Inevitable Excess). If you picked a pet as a ranger, then I'd say the slayer is *slightly* better, if only because it'll stay valid for the DLC, but if you have the bond, then I'd probably take the ranger.

Slayer talents are nothing to write home about in the late game. In the early game, some of them can be very good, and the advanced talents are REALLY good even in late game, but you won't have access to them because you need at least 10 levels of Slayer, which will totally change your build. My favorite is probably dispelling strike for a Legend -- each attack that hits is a dispel attempt with CL 40. And you have 10+ per round with very high AB. Buffs are basically worthless against you. But again, irrelevant unless you want to fundamentally change your build.

3 sneak attack dice is an average of +10.5 damage per hit. That's not bad but not exactly game changing either, especially if you remember that precision damage isn't multiplied on crits. The +1 multiplier on crits basically equates to an additional hit each time you crit. The actual math is dependent on how crit reliable your build is, but it's very likely damage output will be higher without the 6 level dip. Plus, evasion, favored terrain and a constant flat +4 to hit from improved quarry.

To sum up, Slayer is a good class but its best advantages aren't that useful to you now as a dip: you don't need any more feats (slayer is a feat rich class, which is usually very good, but worthless to you), you won't get access to its best abilities, and the abilities you do get (some sneak, some studied targets) aren't better than the late game abilities you'll lose on DS and even moreso on MW. So from an efficiency perspective, I'd say the dip would make you less powerful. But like I said in the beginning, even with the gimp you'd be overpowered for core (assuming your party is built well and that you use smart tactics), and so efficiency shouldn't be your only consideration.