Blackwater:

[Chadiwan Kenobi]

The augmented demons' AC values are painful. Even with +33 or so to attack, it gets rough. I'm stacking buffs and debuffs like crazy, but still. I also can't use any spells, because of the spell resistance being really high. Any tips?

[gmwaddington]

What level are you, and what party members do you have with you? What difficulty are your on?

[Chadiwan Kenobi]

Originally posted by gmwaddington:

What level are you, and what party members do you have with you? What difficulty are your on?

I'm at level 13 with a crusader-angel buff-spam build that actually has a decent chance of hitting (+33 at most). I have Seelah for proccing teammate feats (like outflank and shield wall), pure eldritch scoundrel Woljiff for buffs/debuffs and damage, Ember for buff/debuff spam, and Lann and Arueshalae for damage. I use my character, Lann, Arueshalae, and Woljiff for damage most often. I just spam evil eye/protective luck and cackle with Ember, and then start throwing out spells like baleful polymorph and wracking ray.

I struggle to get Lann's attack bonus very high, but I can get Arueshalae's to +27, before factoring in the favoured enemy bonuses.

My frustration just comes in when the enemies have AC around 46, which is a massive jump due to the "cyborgization" constant buff they have.

I'm playing on core difficulty with respec on and without encumbrance rules.

[gmwaddington]

You're missing a cleric for Guarded Hearth, but you still should be able to hit the enemies. You'll want to use Seelah's Mark of Justice to increase everyone's attack bonus by her charisma modifier. Arueshalae's Ranger's Bond can also help. The Angel spell Storm of Justice can deal quite a bit of damage (I think you should have some castings by now). You also have Bolt of Justice available. Don't forget to buff your melee characters with Sun Marked for extra damage. Your MC should be able to get through spell resistance with your increased Angel caster level.

Make sure you're doing electricity damage to shut down regeneration. You should have found a wand of Call Lightning, which Ember can use with UMB.

When you need to rest, you should be able to find a relic in the complex, to clear corruption.

[Chadiwan Kenobi]

Originally posted by gmwaddington:

You're missing a cleric for Guarded Hearth, but you still should be able to hit the enemies. You'll want to use Seelah's Mark of Justice to increase everyone's attack bonus by her charisma modifier. Arueshalae's Ranger's Bond can also help. The Angel spell Storm of Justice can deal quite a bit of damage (I think you should have some castings by now). You also have Bolt of Justice available. Don't forget to buff your melee characters with Sun Marked for extra damage. Your MC should be able to get through spell resistance with your increased Angel caster level.

Make sure you're doing electricity damage to shut down regeneration. You should have found a wand of Call Lightning, which Ember can use with UMB.

When you need to rest, you should be able to find a relic in the complex, to clear corruption.

I've not found the wand. Ranger's Bond is really useful. Idk if I prepared storm of justice; I'm using buffs instead from those spell slots. I'm using Sun Marked. What's mark of justice? I think I missed that.

[gmwaddington]

You can find Mark of Justice on Seelah's abilities tab:

Originally posted by Mark of Justice:

At 11th level, a paladin can expend two uses of her smite evil ability to grant the ability to smite evil to all allies for 1 minute, using her bonuses. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin's allies add her Charisma bonus (if any) to their attack rolls and add her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. Smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess. In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin's allies gain a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) to their AC against attacks made by the target of this smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, this smite is wasted with no effect.

Mark of Justice is a key ability to help you hit (and damage high-AC enemies: it's why you want to increase Seelah's charisma at every opportunity. Note that it allows you to completely bypass DR.

Note: I'm playing an Angel/Oracle, so all my Angel spells are spontaneous castings for me. Storm of Justice attacks every enemy in a 30 ft burst with Bolt of Justice (ignoring spell resistance):

Originally posted by Bolt of Jusctice:

Spell Effect: You release a powerful stroke of energy that deals 1d6 points of holy damage per caster level. The target needs to make a successful Reflex saving throw, or become prone. If the target is evil, the spell instead deals 1d8 points of holy damage per caster level. The target needs to make a successful Reflex saving throw, or become prone and suffer a -2 penalty to AC, attack rolls and saving throws. If the target is an evil outsider or an undead creature, the spell instead deals 1d10 points of holy damage per caster level. The target needs to make a successful Reflex saving throw, or become prone and suffer a -4 penalty to AC, attack rolls and saving throws. If the target is a demon lord, an evil dragon or a lord of undead (a powerful undead creature like liches, undead dragons, nightshades and similar), the spell instead deals 1d12 points of holy damage per caster level. The target suffers a -4 penalty to AC, attack rolls and saving throws. It also needs to make a successful Reflex saving throw, or become prone.

[Kinoringan]

Enemies there don't have true seeing. So use Greater Invisibility spell on your characters. Use lightning spell to shut down the hp regen. There are wands there that let you cast lightning spell so that is taking care off. Coup de grace to finish enemies off

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Chadiwan Kenobi:

Originally posted by gmwaddington:

What level are you, and what party members do you have with you? What difficulty are your on?

I'm at level 13 with a crusader-angel buff-spam build that actually has a decent chance of hitting (+33 at most). I have Seelah for proccing teammate feats (like outflank and shield wall), pure eldritch scoundrel Woljiff for buffs/debuffs and damage, Ember for buff/debuff spam, and Lann and Arueshalae for damage. I use my character, Lann, Arueshalae, and Woljiff for damage most often. I just spam evil eye/protective luck and cackle with Ember, and then start throwing out spells like baleful polymorph and wracking ray.

I struggle to get Lann's attack bonus very high, but I can get Arueshalae's to +27, before factoring in the favoured enemy bonuses.

My frustration just comes in when the enemies have AC around 46, which is a massive jump due to the "cyborgization" constant buff they have.

I'm playing on core difficulty with respec on and without encumbrance rules.

Actually i am fighting the augmented demons here and the lowest among them has 51 AC.
The Greater Kalamakous Marauder has 56 AC, with 29 Fortitude and 21 will according to the inspect enemy. However when i cast a spell on them it turns out their will save is like 29...and that after reducing it via evil eye.

Basicly so far any enemy i encountered all the stuff written on the inspect enemy character sheet regarding save numbers was incorrect.
I tried to PK an enemy with NENIO after significantly reducing its saves by 8 points. It should have had 15 or so Will save, however as per the log it had 25.
I checked the detailed description and it was like:
Will save: 25
base 8
something +3
cybernatization:+4. Which is 15, yet the roll was made against 25.
Evil eye was not even listed.

(I can get my AB on 4 characters over 30, and with one 38..)
The worst is though, that even if i can get a kalamakous down AC wise, once it kills something it just gets a major heal and wham back to full health.

As per the wiki page enemies should have low will save, but this does not seem to be the case. It seems nearly all enemies received some kind of overhaul, as last time i was here i did not struggle this hard, and my current builds are even better than they were.

Okay figured it out, it seems some bonuses are not considered, one of them being cybernatization.

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Chadiwan Kenobi:

The augmented demons' AC values are painful. Even with +33 or so to attack, it gets rough. I'm stacking buffs and debuffs like crazy, but still. I also can't use any spells, because of the spell resistance being really high. Any tips?

Spell resistance is not an issue for any mythic in chapter 3, especially in Blackwater which is supposed to be done late, i.e. after the Ivory Sanctum when you get the Quarterstaff of the Warmage.

All of the cyberdemons have Will saves that are weak relative to their other saves. Nenio properly specced into Enchantment school of magic mops the floor with that entire area on unfair.

However, even if you don't target the relatively weak Will and target the much higher Reflex (cyber-succs have +30 Reflex on unfair), it's still possible to beat the save with 90-95% success rate with a properly built DC caster:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2941197941

Once you make the demons flat-footed via Stun, Paralysis, Blindness, Sleep or some other means, they will be dramatically easier to hit.

[Chunky]

Here's a good formula for hitting high ac enemies in act 3 and onwards.

1. Take a domain companion (Sosiel is fine) with luck, good, community, and madness.

2. For the first three mythics take impossible domain twice and take domain zealot.

3. Stack multiple domain abilities in one fight.

For example in 1 round you can use 2 domaine abilities on a single character with domaine zealot. So at level 13 using touch of madness and touch of good can add around 14 attack to one character for a single round. Adding guarded hearth and mark of justice (which have fewer uses but last longer), will add to around 28 attack total. Using luck will also let you roll twice and take the better roll.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Originally posted by Chadiwan Kenobi:

The augmented demons' AC values are painful. Even with +33 or so to attack, it gets rough. I'm stacking buffs and debuffs like crazy, but still. I also can't use any spells, because of the spell resistance being really high. Any tips?

Spell resistance is not an issue for any mythic in chapter 3, especially in Blackwater which is supposed to be done late, i.e. after the Ivory Sanctum when you get the Quarterstaff of the Warmage.

All of the cyberdemons have Will saves that are weak relative to their other saves. Nenio properly specced into Enchantment school of magic mops the floor with that entire area on unfair.

However, even if you don't target the relatively weak Will and target the much higher Reflex (cyber-succs have +30 Reflex on unfair), it's still possible to beat the save with 90-95% success rate with a properly built DC caster:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2941197941

Once you make the demons flat-footed via Stun, Paralysis, Blindness, Sleep or some other means, they will be dramatically easier to hit.

Isn't mass icy prison a level 9 spell? So i would need to be on level 17 to get it right?
(Currently on level 14 so i have level 7 spells at best.)
A Greater Kalamakous on core has 33/23/23 (fort and will boosted by cyborg, whereas reflex only gets a boost from haste.)

Most of the time even if i reduced their saves to have 70-80% success chance they rolled 19 or 20, and after a while i just ran out of spell slots, so i changed my strategy.
(I am known to have terrible roll streaks.)
I just fell back to the door, blocked it with two buffed up animal companions (AC 58 and 50) and also a shadow demon. The two companions had also blur and displacement so the enemy on those rare occasions when they would have hit them did fail due to concealment.
My two rangers (main and Aru) were buffed up for Damage and AB, and this way i managed to reach 36-38 AB for first shots. They focused on one enemy while Seelah focused on another as she does 100 damage a turn when she does not hit the enemy.(if she does it is higher.) This way a bit slowly but i was able to defeat them in about 15 turns. Only the touch attack of the succubi were a bit troublesome on occasions.


Camelia and Amber just assisted with AC reduction.(-8 and quarry on each ranger is actually a +10 bonus to hit:) )

@Chunky

I already picked my mythic paths, and i did not pick impossible. Not even sure if it was available to anyone. (Cant recall seeing it and i read all the mythic paths trying to figure out which to choose. Allthough it is still possible i missed it.)
I do not have any cleric in the party. Sosiel as a character for me is utterly annoying and i really hate to have him in the party, i did not buy any cleric from Hilor neither, as the cost of recruiting a characer is ridiculous. (Yes i know i should have a cleric in the party, but i just cant stand Sosiel, and cant afford to buy from HIlor.)

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Isn't mass icy prison a level 9 spell? So i would need to be on level 17 to get it right?
(Currently on level 14 so i have level 7 spells at best.)
A Greater Kalamakous on core has 33/23/23 (fort and will boosted by cyborg, whereas reflex only gets a boost from haste.)

Most of the time even if i reduced their saves to have 70-80% success chance they rolled 19 or 20, and after a while i just ran out of spell slots, so i changed my strategy.

It's a 9th level spell, but I'm playing Lich at the moment who gets access to higher level spells earlier (CL13 Wizard Lich gets access to level 9 spells at MR4) so I posted my latest character as an example and proof that even if you don't target the weaker Will save, their stronger saves can still be crushed with 90% success rate and higher.

Even with the cyborg boost, Will is the weakest save. Moreover, Enchantment gets a higher spell DC boost from items than Evocation and can benefit from the Fey bloodline arcana, so you can reach DC50+ Compulsion spells before you get to Blackwater which is more than enough as you only need Enchantment spell DCs in the 40 range - something Nenio is capable of.

You don't need level 9 spells, Enchantment has many lower level spells that will make the demons either Prone and grant +4 to-hit in melee (Hideous Laughter, Greater Command: Fall), make them flat-footed and thus far easier to hit due to loss of DEX to AC bonus (Overwhelming Grief) or paralyze them and make them not only flat-footed, but also set their DEX to 1 and make them helpless.

If you paralyze the demons with Hold Monster (thus making them helpless), you can just use the Coup de Grace maneuver to automatically land a critical hit and if they fail their fortitude save, they will die instantly as well.

[Kriminaal]

DC49 on icy prison mass at level 13 in Chapter 3 ? How did you achieve that without Toy Box :P I want to see the MATH on that!

[MjKorz]

Originally posted by Kriminaal:

DC49 on icy prison mass at level 13 in Chapter 3 ? How did you achieve that without Toy Box :P I want to see the MATH on that!

Total Intelligence: 33 (+11 modifier)
20 base
+3 from 3 stat increases at level 13
+4 Enhancement from Fox's Cunning
+2 Profane from Draven's Hat
+4 Morale from Insightful Contemplation

Icy Prison (Mass) DC: 49
10 base
+9 from spell level 9
+11 from Intelligence modifier
+2 from Potent Magic spell DC increase
+7 from (Greater) Spell Focus feats via Expanded Arsenal: Evocation
+2 from Mythic Spell Focus via Expanded Arsenal: Evocation
+2 from Cloak of Carnage
+2 from Quarterstaff of the Warmage
+1 from Flow of Water
+2 from Acorn Pie (you can buy the recipe and ingredients in Murky Grotto)
+1 from Inevitable Fate

If you cast a level 9 Evocation spell with a Sonic descriptor (like Holy Word or Greater Shout heightened to spell level 9), you can reach DC50, because Voice of the Faceless grants +2 DC to spells with a Sonic descriptor while Flow of Water grants only +1 DC to spells with a Cold descriptor.

[ptirodaktill]

All enemies here can be frighten by 1 lvl thug . https://youtu.be/62qC8lP4TdM Frankly, the entire location is just a slog due to bughell affecting these mooks. They are supposed to die with adamantin weapon or lightning weapon. Lightning enchanted staff on Camelia kill them , lightning shotsword on my thug has not effect. Some die to lightning cantrip, some don`t. Adamantin axe can kill some of some, other don`t. Some demons require numerous attempts of coup-de-grace to end there suffering. Also, that AC on helpless mooks is completely unnececery, i hope one day they act like trols .

[Chadiwan Kenobi]

Originally posted by MjKorz:

Originally posted by Chadiwan Kenobi:

The augmented demons' AC values are painful. Even with +33 or so to attack, it gets rough. I'm stacking buffs and debuffs like crazy, but still. I also can't use any spells, because of the spell resistance being really high. Any tips?

Spell resistance is not an issue for any mythic in chapter 3, especially in Blackwater which is supposed to be done late, i.e. after the Ivory Sanctum when you get the Quarterstaff of the Warmage.

All of the cyberdemons have Will saves that are weak relative to their other saves. Nenio properly specced into Enchantment school of magic mops the floor with that entire area on unfair.

However, even if you don't target the relatively weak Will and target the much higher Reflex (cyber-succs have +30 Reflex on unfair), it's still possible to beat the save with 90-95% success rate with a properly built DC caster:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2941197941

Once you make the demons flat-footed via Stun, Paralysis, Blindness, Sleep or some other means, they will be dramatically easier to hit.

Does your character's bonus to spell resistance rolls decrease with lower-level spells? I was just spamming "jolt" at the enemies and it wasn't working, but once I got the lightning gloves, I had no issues.