Monk dip seems so mandatory for tanks...

[mbradtke]

So, just wondering, in kingmaker it seems so mandatory for AC tanks to take at last one level in monk, everything else feels just gimped.... not a big fan of it tough, it is still the same in wraith? did they change anything on the strong monk feats? esp. crane wing, does it still work with everything? shield and 2 hander etc.?
i know there is a background for improved unarmed fighting, so it is a bit less mandatory but still... a AC tank without crane style, crane wing just feels very gimped... are there good alternatives? i dont think so

[razvedchiki]

depends on what class you are using, if you get a feat every lvl like a fighter you can skip the monk lvl and a burn feat on improved unarmed strike. taking lvls of other classes delays the abilities of your main ones which means you may not have them available when you most need them.
for example i used to give seelah a monk lvl to get her faster acess to the crane feats but that delays her lvl 11 mark of justice to lvl 12, which depending where you are in the game can make your life a lot easier.

[BlueBangkok]

No, monk dips are not required. It's a common misconception that you cannot have a "real" tank without some sort of a monk dip. You can, and you can have unfair-viable tanks without monk dips. There is almost endless number of possible builds in Wrath.

[hilburnashua]

mbradtke님이 먼저 게시:

MjKorz님이 먼저 게시:

Intelligence based builds that stack double Canny Defense (e.g. Sword Saint + Duelist).

Instinctual Warrior who gets nothing by dipping Monk, because he already gets WIS to AC which doesn't stack with Monk.

fair enough, would u consider this a bug though? i mean why would monk not stack with instinctual warrior but sword saint with duelist? even tough the input is higher here, because you only gain 1 AC per level.... so i guess it is balanced

In the Pathfinder rules (FAQ actually) you cannot get the bonus from a stat to a characteristic/die role more then once unless at least one of those bonuses are typed. So the Intelligence bonus that Duelists get to AC is typed as a Dodge bonus as is the bonus from Sword Saint, and Dodge bonuses stack (the only typed bonus that does).

The bonus from Wisdom to AC for both the Monk and Instinctual Warrior, are untyped so wouldn't stack. Plus, it's kind of hard to be both a monk and a barbarian since monks must be lawful and barbarians must be non-lawful.

I haven't tried it but I heard in WotR that the Charisma bonus to AC that Scaled Fist Monks and Oracles get with Nature's Whisper stack, and those shouldn't.

[Max Kojote, M.SC]

hilburnashua님이 먼저 게시:

mbradtke님이 먼저 게시:

fair enough, would u consider this a bug though? i mean why would monk not stack with instinctual warrior but sword saint with duelist? even tough the input is higher here, because you only gain 1 AC per level.... so i guess it is balanced

In the Pathfinder rules (FAQ actually) you cannot get the bonus from a stat to a characteristic/die role more then once unless at least one of those bonuses are typed. So the Intelligence bonus that Duelists get to AC is typed as a Dodge bonus as is the bonus from Sword Saint, and Dodge bonuses stack (the only typed bonus that does).

The bonus from Wisdom to AC for both the Monk and Instinctual Warrior, are untyped so wouldn't stack. Plus, it's kind of hard to be both a monk and a barbarian since monks must be lawful and barbarians must be non-lawful.

I haven't tried it but I heard in WotR that the Charisma bonus to AC that Scaled Fist Monks and Oracles get with Nature's Whisper stack, and those shouldn't.

I know it did previously and that combined with a bug involving Touch of Glory (it boosted Charisma rather than a roll) meant that Charisma stacking was predictably ridiculous. I don't think it still does anymore but not 100% on that.

[Immortal Reaver]

You can get heavy armor Mutation Warrior19/Witch1 to cca 90 AC. (more with class abilities like Mark of Justice, some source of Morale AC like Hellknight Aura or Tranquil Whisperer, and cooking, +8AC from Seamantle, with scroll crafting and UMD you can get to insane AC on any class).
Same in Kingmaker, I made lvl 12 pure Fighter with 50 AC (with +2 Heavy Armor). No need to dip. 55 AC with Fighting Defensively and Shield Wall. I could get 4 AC more with better +4 mithral armor (artisan) but that was on Valerie. Monk dip would have more AC, but it does not matter whenever you have 20 more AC than enemy AB, or 25 more AC.

razvedchiki님이 먼저 게시:

depends on what class you are using, if you get a feat every lvl like a fighter you can skip the monk lvl and a burn feat on improved unarmed strike.

Or take Martial Artist background that gives it to you free.

[ayrtep]

Monks dips are not possible as they force you to play lawful.

What is compulsory for melee characters is the Oblate/Martial-disciple background feat.